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Breva 1100 runs perfectly except it won't idle.

JimmyZ1234

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
36
Location
Boulder Colorado
Help! My 2007 Breva 1100 has developed a stalling problem but runs great above 2000 rpm. I spent the last two days trying everything I could think of, to no avail.

Tuneup: I installed new plugs, air filter, and adjusted the valves. No change.

Idle air: I also cleaned and verified operation of the idle step motor (you can watch it open and close when the engine is shut off). I even tried disconnecting the idle air intake tubes from the step motor and left them wide open, expecting a fast idle bur didn't get it. Stalls anywway with plenty of air.

Spark: I pulled the plugs and watched the spark as the engine cranks. Looks strong- bright yellow and snappy. Also reinstalled the plugs but disconnected the wire. The spark jumps strongly to plug as you get it close.

Injectors: I pulled these too and looked at the jet holes under a microscope. They looked clean but I put a little carb cleaner in there anyway. I also watched them operate out of the throttle body as I cranked the engine. They puff fuel as expected. I don't suspect there since the bike funds fine off idle.

Intake air sensor: I measured 3.3 k slightly warm. This looks right. Also got reasonable results for the cylinder gear thermister.

Carb balence: within 1. mm at 3k rpm

Idle air bypass screws:. hard to make any adjustments here since it wont idle.

Fault codes: no new ones, even after the engine stalls out. I dont trust the old ones as they don't reflect gthe current problem.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
 
If it hasn't been to a shop in a long time and you don't have any software, I would take it in for a TPS reset.
 
Sometimes the throttle bodies need a clean, there was a service bulletin about this some years ago. Oil mist from the air-box contaminates them. I have run the pipe into a separate container and had no problem since.
PS: don't turn or adjust any linkage or the sacred screw
 
Also the stepper motor may need to be cleaned. There is an easy way to do this from the airbox. At the right rear bottom of the airbox is the air supply hole for the stepper. I use copious amounts of carburetor cleaner in that hole. Let is sit for a few minutes (15 should be enough) start the bike with the airbox open and tank crosswise on the frame, it will run that way. Bike will run like crap until cleaner is though the system. When running normally, spray more cleaner into that hole with the engine running. I've used this technique to get stalling bikes to not stall.
 
If it hasn't been to a shop in a long time and you don't have any software, I would take it in for a TPS reset.

Sorry I forgot to mention everything I did, which includes doing a TPS reset. No effect. PS, I did have to replace my throttle position sensor some time ago and did a TPS reset then as well. Bike ran fine for many thousands of miles after that until thi \
Also the stepper motor may need to be cleaned. There is an easy way to do this from the airbox. At the right rear bottom of the airbox is the air supply hole for the stepper. I use copious amounts of carburetor cleaner in that hole. Let is sit for a few minutes (15 should be enough) start the bike with the airbox open and tank crosswise on the frame, it will run that way. Bike will run like crap until cleaner is though the system. When running normally, spray more cleaner into that hole with the engine running. I've used this technique to get stalling bikes to not stall.

Thanks for the reply (from a fellow "JZ" no less!). I cleaned the stepper motor throughly and made sure it moved. Lubed it with a little WD40 to boot. No effect.
 
Sometimes the throttle bodies need a clean, there was a service bulletin about this some years ago. Oil mist from the air-box contaminates them. I have run the pipe into a separate container and had no problem since.
PS: don't turn or adjust any linkage or the sacred screw

Yep, tried that too (but forgot to mention it in my original post). There was some black crud in there and I cleaned it as best I could from the outside with paper towels and carb cleaner. No effect, but perhaps I did not do a good enough job.
 
Yep, tried that too (but forgot to mention it in my original post). There was some black crud in there and I cleaned it as best I could from the outside with paper towels and carb cleaner. No effect, but perhaps I did not do a good enough job.

I have a new theory: maybe the crankshaft position sensor doesn't put out enough signal at low rpm. I think it's the inductive type and that would have less amplitude at low rpm. I've seen some posts about people having to re-shim this part, and I see some oil contamination in the area- perhaps it loosened up? I admit I'm grasping at straws here, but when you eliminate the the obvious stuff, it must be something unusual.
 
I wouldn't recommend changing the gap on the phase sensor. The ohm value for that component is 680 +/- 10% at 20 degrees Celsius. If it is out of range, I would recommend replacement. The gap should be 0.7mm and you can determine the shim needed using a vernier caliper. I'd estimate the shim by comparing the length of the old sensor to the replacement if it needs changing.
 
I wouldn't recommend changing the gap on the phase sensor. The ohm value for that component is 680 +/- 10% at 20 degrees Celsius. If it is out of range, I would recommend replacement. The gap should be 0.7mm and you can determine the shim needed using a vernier caliper. I'd estimate the shim by comparing the length of the old sensor to the replacement if it needs changing.

Yes, agreed. I will check if it loosened up though. I've got some oil leaking in that area which I hear is common and this may or may not indicate loosening. Thanks again for the advice.
 
Help! My 2007 Breva 1100 has developed a stalling problem but runs great above 2000 rpm. I spent the last two days trying everything I could think of, to no avail.

Tuneup: I installed new plugs, air filter, and adjusted the valves. No change.

Idle air: I also cleaned and verified operation of the idle step motor (you can watch it open and close when the engine is shut off). I even tried disconnecting the idle air intake tubes from the step motor and left them wide open, expecting a fast idle bur didn't get it. Stalls anywway with plenty of air.

Spark: I pulled the plugs and watched the spark as the engine cranks. Looks strong- bright yellow and snappy. Also reinstalled the plugs but disconnected the wire. The spark jumps strongly to plug as you get it close.

Injectors: I pulled these too and looked at the jet holes under a microscope. They looked clean but I put a little carb cleaner in there anyway. I also watched them operate out of the throttle body as I cranked the engine. They puff fuel as expected. I don't suspect there since the bike funds fine off idle.

Intake air sensor: I measured 3.3 k slightly warm. This looks right. Also got reasonable results for the cylinder gear thermister.

Carb balence: within 1. mm at 3k rpm

Idle air bypass screws:. hard to make any adjustments here since it wont idle.

Fault codes: no new ones, even after the engine stalls out. I dont trust the old ones as they don't reflect gthe current problem.

Any suggestions would be appreciated!
 
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Update June 10, 2018: bike went from running great above 2000 rpm to suddenly cutting out completely. I cleaned the connector to the crankshaft position sensor on the side of the road with a Swiss army knife (no kidding)and it started right back up. Been running great (except idle- more on that later) for 3 days (~800 miles) now. Gas milage has also improved from low 40s to 49 mpg with a touring load and it feels more powerful too. This could be coincidental but I doubt it.

I've heard about bad crankshaft position sensors on other Guzzis but suspect the problem is usually the connector. ItsI not well sealed and located in a dirty place. Just reseating it often cleans off the contacts.

Idle: I'm sure I made things worse by messing with the idle air screws. Lacking a good procedure for setting getting these, I closed both and now trying opening them 1/8th turn at a time. The idle works sometimes now but I'm still fussing.

I would guess that the proper procedure would-be to block the idle air stepper port until I get it close but biased toward too little air (since the step motor can only add more, not subtract anything). If anyone has more insight I'd appreciate a heads up.

Of course the step motor could still be bad but I previously cleaned it thoroughly and watched it operate. It moves in and out consistently when the key is shut off- obviously to set the "zero" position.

Thanks for all the helpful replies!
 
Idle: I'm sure I made things worse by messing with the idle air screws. Lacking a good procedure for setting getting these, I closed both and now trying opening them 1/8th turn at a time. The idle works sometimes now but I'm still fussing.

Only one screw is supposed to be open (or both closed). Close them both, and then open one to balance the air intacts at idle. You'll need a carb sync tool and adaptors for the inlet manifolds. Do a search on this site for more information.

I would guess that the proper procedure would-be to block the idle air stepper port until I get it close but biased toward too little air (since the step motor can only add more, not subtract anything). If anyone has more insight I'd appreciate a heads up.

The easiest way to find how much the stepper motor is contributing to the idle is to squeeze the hose with a pair of pliers to block off the flow. I have pneumatic switches on my 1200 Sports to achieve good idle when the motor is cold, and switch the air out when the bike warms up. Usually, the problem is too high idle when warm. Again, a search should reveal more information.
 
Jimmy, Whatever you do do not touch the idle stop screw. Read this thread to learn how to sync which requires software to reset the TPS. https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/new-alaris-centurion-vdsts-info-instructions.1676/

Yes, I've heard that before and will leave it alone. I will try your suggestion regarding setting the air screws when I get back home and have my manometer available. I'll also give cleaning the stepper one more time even though out appears to move freely. Thanks again!
 
Yes, balancing the throttle bodies at 3k rpm is one part, but you also have to do the same at tickover, or as close to that as you can get the engine to work at the moment. It is possible that one butterfly is open slightly more which will have a greater effect at tickover than at 3k.
 
Jimmy.
Did you get any further in looking into this?
I'm in the middle of beating my B11 into submission and have also come to suspect the cam sensor as the prime suspect for my low idle/stall issue
cheers

Tris
 
Jimmy.
Did you get any further in looking into this?
I'm in the middle of beating my B11 into submission and have also come to suspect the cam sensor as the prime suspect for my low idle/stall issue
cheers

Tris
Yes I think so. I tried sealing the oil leak with a little RTV and discovered it seemed to cause the stall problem at idle to get worse. That got me thinking that maybe the thing isn't shimmed correctly, so today I measured carefully and took out a few shins and it seems to be better. But since the problem isn't consistent I'll have to run it for a week or two to see if it's really gone away.

These types of sensors are inductive in nature and because of that the amplitude of the signal they produce is very dependent on how close they are to the crankshaft teeth.
 
Yes I think so. I tried sealing the oil leak with a little RTV and discovered it seemed to cause the stall problem at idle to get worse. That got me thinking that maybe the thing isn't shimmed correctly, so today I measured carefully and took out a few shins and it seems to be better. But since the problem isn't consistent I'll have to run it for a week or two to see if it's really gone away.

These types of sensors are inductive in nature and because of that the amplitude of the signal they produce is very dependent on how close they are to the crankshaft teeth.


The specification for the gap is 0.6mm to 1.2mm. I'd say the closer to 0.6 the better.
 
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