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2006 Breva 1100 Schematic

Discussion in 'BNS12 Chat & Tech' started by Don Zobel, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Anybody know where I can get a 2006 Breva 1100 Schematic?

    I found one purported to be for a 2005 Breva 1100 but it doesn't seem to match my 2006 color codes.

    thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2005_Breva_1100.gif

    DZ
     
  2. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    The schematics out there match the factory documentation. However, it seems on assembly they use whatever color they have handy.
     
  3. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    On the schematic I have, start switch, for instance, is shown.

    Color codes are off, but seems like most function is there, but not all.

    DZ
     
  4. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    What I'm trying to figure out, is why when I now push the start button, nothing happens. When I jump the stater solenoid wire, to the battery it cranks but doesn't start. Looks like main relay is working and AUX relay cycles during boot up. Looks to me like the ECU might be faulty?

    When I try to invoke Diagnostics, on bike menu, it asks for some CODE. Any idea what code it's looking for? Is there some box one can buy that gives a readout? Or does the bike give an error code readout? Lottsa mystery here.

    DZ
     
  5. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    I think it's asking for the service code, 36421.

    You can then view active and stored errors for the dashboard and ECU. They are listed below.

    Immobiliser fault: key code read but not recognised DSB 01
    Immobiliser fault: key code not read
    (key not present or transponder broken) DSB 02
    Immobiliser fault: Antenna broken (open or short-circuit) DSB 03
    Immobiliser fault: internal controller fault DSB 04
    Fuel sensor fault DSB 05
    Air temperature sensor fault DSB 06
    Oil sensor fault DSB 07
    Oil pressure fault DSB 08

    Error throttle valve C.C. Vcc ECU 10
    Error throttle valve C.C. Gnd ECU 11
    Error Engine temperature C.C. Vcc ECU 14
    Error Engine temperature C.C Gnd ECU 15
    Error Air temperature C.C. Vcc ECU 16
    Error Air temperature C.C Gnd ECU 17
    Error Low battery ECU 20
    Error Lambda sensor ECU 21
    Error Ignition coil 1 C.C. Vcc ECU 22
    Error Ignition coil 1 C.C. Gnd ECU 23
    Error Ignition coil 2 C.C. Vcc ECU 24
    Error Ignition coil 2 C.C. Gnd ECU 25
    Error Injector 1 C.C. Vcc. ECU 26
    Error Injector 1 C.C. Gnd ECU 27
    Error Injector 2 C.C. Vcc ECU 30
    Error Pump relay ECU 36
    Error Local Loop-back ECU 37
    Error relay starter C.C. Vcc ECU 44
    Error relay starter C.C. ground ECU 45
    Error cannister C.C Vcc ECU 46
    Error cannister C.C. ground ECU 47
    Error battery high ECU 50
    Error ECU general ECU 51
    Error instrument panel ECU 54
    Error autoadaptation Tito I ECU 55
    Error vehicle speed ECU 56
    Error stepper C.A. ECU 60
    Error stepper C.C. Vcc ECU 61
    Error stepper C.C. Ground ECU 62
    Error unknown ECU 00
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2017
  6. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    Suggest you read the Startus interruptus thread first.
     
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  7. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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  8. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Today checked the AUX relay, while cranking. It turned on. Which tells me the ECU part that looks at the crank sensor, must be working.

    DZ
     
  9. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Hey thanks for the info.

    DZ
     
  10. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Code worked. Thanks.

    Now next question. I get this panel, one for ECU and one for Dashboard. No X's on the ECU panel, but on the dashboard to the right of 01 through 08 there are two columns left one headed by an A and right by M.

    My 01 and 02 and 04 and 07 and 08 had X's in the M column and 0's in the A column. Do I go to the top of your list and look at DSB 01 etc? Hey I'm a Richard Cranium. Have since invoked reset.

    How I got to this situation.

    Bike has always been at the edge of starter solenoid not engaging, usually worse when warm. Factory voltage regulator had a too low set point, like in low 13's so was undercharging the battery, not good for the battery. So I recently bought a new regulator with proper set point, claimed 14.6 v at room temp. Course dash voltmeter doesn't read the same as a DVM on the battery, about .7v low. Now get close to 14v at battery. Assume there must be some harness drop, but hard to look at alternator output with tank on. Future project will be to tape my DVM probe to a stick and check. Hadn't had the solenoid problem after new regulator was installed and it isn't summer any more.

    Have assumed solenoid issue is too much impedance from battery to starter solenoid coil terminal, so at high temps, due to lead/acid battery negative TC, battery is low and solenoid coil windings having a positive TC so less solenoid coil current at higher temps. Eventually reach a crossover point where it doesn't pull in. I can hear start relay click in, for a few seconds, then quit trying when having starter solenoid issue. Usually try it a few times, and it goes. Worst case had to bump start it once or twice. Carry a clip lead also so I can hook starter solenoid coil terminal directly to battery. Always cranks then.

    So the other night I stopped at a gas station, wasn't all that hot out, and when I went to leave got the starter relay treatment. Heard the relay click in, for a few seconds, then out. Did this a few times, and didn't crank. Then noticed when I pushed the starter button, no relay click. Tried to bump start it, didn't work. Then and now, when I turn on the key, goes through boot up dash waggling. Later checked and MAIN relay is passing power also AUX relay turns on for a second or so, during boot up.

    At station, checked fuses and found #D 15A blown. Replaced with spare. Pretty sure it was #D but could have been #B. No change. Push start button, and nothing happens. Took a jumper wire, I carry for solenoid issue, and unplugged starter solenoid coil wire and hooked to battery, cranked, but wouldn't fire. Hauled bike home, but that's another story.

    Since have checked all fuses under the seat, two 30A ones and the lettered ones. All are good and get power on both sides of them.

    Starter relay has power on non starter solenoid side and has twelve volts on both coil pins. Unplugged relay and one side went to zero so assume ECU is supposed to ground this terminal when starter is invoked.

    Checked and AUX relay engages when I use the jumper to crank. So ECU must be seeing the engine turn from crank sensor. Also because of boot up seeming to work seems like the ECU isn't totally fried.

    Are there any more fuses anywhere, like behind the dash? Kinda makes me suspect the ECU, but don't understand why I'd have blown the 15A fuse?

    Went through the 'new key' process and it said it memorized it, or some such. Then it did a reboot. Still hitting start button, doesn't make it crank. Thought maybe key code got lost, apparently not.

    Checked to see if there's spark when using the jumper to make it crank, No Spark. Course note above where the relay that gives power to the coils, is engaged, so no signal must be coming from the ECU to the coils.

    Checked for error codes again. I'd reset them. No error codes noted.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.

    The plot thickens,

    DZ
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2017
  11. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    As Brian UK suggests, do the startus interruptus mod first. Basically this means cutting the yellow wire on the starter relay under the seat (only the starter relay has a yellow wire) and connect the relay end of yellow wire to the battery positive via a 20A in-line fuse. Insulate the other cut yellow wire, or use it for a key operated power source.

    If you then still have problems, I can only suggest the battery might not have sufficient capacity under load when starting. You can get an idea how it is by watching a voltmeter connected across the battery when attempting to start. I believe the ECU gives up when the voltage drops to 8v.
     
  12. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    For those of us in the US, MPH cycles http://mphcycles.com/ has fabricated a kit to make doing this modification easy. No wire cutting or splicing involved. The kit includes a fused line from B+. Then you complete the modification by removing the starer relay, inserting the supplied harness, and re-installing the relay to the harness.
     
  13. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Hey thanks for getting back Dave,

    Please note further info I supplied. When I push the starter button, starter relay isn't being engaged. Have charger on battery, just to be sure battery voltage is up. Running around 13.6 volts. Not much current draw, of course, as it isn't cranking. When I do make it crank, by clip leading starter solenoid terminal to the battery, get no spark.

    DZ
     
  14. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    Can you elaborate? The starter motor does crank when you clip a lead to the battery, great. But what's this about no spark?

    How about temporarily connecting a car battery across the bike one?
     
  15. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Battery voltage is fine, as affore mentioned, have a charger on it to be sure.

    When I use a clip lead from starter solenoid to battery it cranks fine. Have key turned on, and get no spark, while cranking. Also as affore mentioned, AUX relay is engaged, when cranking, so there must be power available to the coils. So ECU must not be causing them to spark. Also when I push the start button, with starter solenoid connected to bike harness, it doesn't crank.

    DZ
     
  16. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    I had a similar issue on an EV Touring after crabbing the frame. Turned out I had pulled the HT leads out of the coils just enough to stop the spark. It's a long shot, but have you checked the connections around your coils? Confirmed +12V at terminal 1 on the coils?
     
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  17. Brian UK

    Brian UK GT Reference

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    What volts do you have at the battery, particularly when cranking? The ECU will shut everything down if the volts are too low, which means no crank and no spark. If you crank with a jump wire, there will still be no spark.

    Can you hear the fuel pump priming when you turn on the ignition?
     
  18. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    I'll check, haven't actually checked right at the coil, but have at the output of the AUX relay, which is the same lead. Course even if this lead was dislodged, seems to me it wouldn't explain why it won't crank?
     
  19. Don Zobel

    Don Zobel Just got it firing!

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    Battery is at about 13.6 volts or a little less. Fuel pump does prime, during boot up. AUX relay closes then opens after a few seconds. Relay again closes when I crank with jumper. Please see #10 above.

    DZ
     
  20. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    Since fuel pump doesn't prime, I'm thinking you halve a relay or relays failing. To clean the slate, go in and clean all battery and ground connections. Then try the start procedure again. If fuel pump doesn't prime, then replace the injection relays and go from there. Still doing the start relay modification first will eliminate that possibility of low voltage to the relay, but not a defective relay if it still doesn't turn the bike over.
     

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