choose your own oil level?

[Vagrant]

So stupid me, I read the service manual for the 17 V7-3 located right on this great site. On the very same page it tells you to check the oil after the dip stick has been screwed in and right below that it says to not screw it in. Duh! which way do I do it. most Guzzis' are not screwed in including the 2015 V7.
then it says use 2000 ml with the filter change and that's 1.8 quarts. less than before on older V7.

Also I saw several posts where folks are setting the valves at 6 & 8 but the shop book calls for 4 & 6. seeing as they made so many other good changes to the 17s' it makes sense to me to do the 4 & 6.
This whole thing reminds me of the "new math" they started teaching years ago. just make up whatever answer you want and it will be Ok.

 

[john zibell]

Steve, I suspect you are correct on valve clearance as the new bikes run a different head. As for oil level, watch the level and don't over fill. I hope Todd chimes in on this especially for oil level. Recent specification from the factory will have you over fill and get oil into the air box and throttle body. I suggest you recalculate the US measure of 2000cc. It would be over 2 quarts as a US quart is only 946cc. So I'd start by only putting in 2 quarts and see where the oil level registers after filling the filter. BTW, 1 milliliter is equivalent to 1 cc.

 

[My name is Jeff]

When you dump the oil measure out how much she dropped then put the same amount of fresh oil back in.

 

[john zibell]

When you dump the oil measure out how much she dropped then put the same amount of fresh oil back in.

Not quite, the oil filter will retain quite a bit of oil. This works when not changing the filter, but when you change oil and filter it won't.

 

[Vagrant]

I plugged in the 2000 into one of those internet conversion calculators and that's what it showed. But John is right. 67.62 oz. 2.11qt.
I hadn't put the cm3 behind it so maybe that's what messed it up.
here is the page from the shop manual. am I just reading it wrong?

 

[GTM®]

Valve lash is printed on the rear fender sticker @ .006/.008" -- .15/.20mm
The V7 MkIII has a completely different oiling circuit and (seemingly deeper) oil pan, along with a bottom of piston sprayer now(!)- pic below.
I still run them at no more than 1/2 way on the stick or you'll get trace oil in the airbox. Call it 1.6-ish qts. My sump spacer does not fit/work on the MkIII.

 

[Bill Hagan]

I remain curious about the derelict's -- oops; I mean vagrant's -- question WRT dipstick placement when checking, i.e., all the way in or resting on lip?

Suppose as both my brother's V7 III just had its 1Kk service (Steve, that was only a dollar or two south of $400 at Marietta dealer! ) and I'm in Atlanta (Lord knows brother won't check), I will see (and take pix) what stick shows in both positions while on side stand.

Have to add that Guzzi wrench (Rod) at Marietta seems VERY competent and conversant about brand. I failed to ask him about dipstick when we picked up Michael's Special yesterday. He also did my Stornello and as I trailered it back to Virginia a few weeks ago and have only ridden it once and briefly since, I should get same readings on it for reference.

BTW, just ordered those folding toe pegs from Todd -- https://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/gt-eccentric-folding-toe-peg/ -- for both my Stornello and Michael's V7 III Special. Should make shifting much easier with our fat feet.

Bill

 

[john zibell]

I'm not surprised by all the contradictions. Guzzi technical documentation has been very poor since Aprilla, then Piaggio took over. There technical writers appear to be pretty lazy just copying information from other manuals for a new model. I wouldn't be surprised if the sticker on the rear fender of the V7IIIs isn't just left over stock from previous V7 production. It would not hurt to error on the side of caution and use the wider specification to prevent valve problems in the future. I was a technical writer on missile systems for many years. Glaring contradictions such as these would not be tolerated.

 

[Trout]

I was a technical writer on missile systems for many years. Glaring contradictions such as these would not be tolerated.

My first wife worked for IBM on an Air Force base in Pomona NJ called NAFEC: National Air Force Experimental Center.
She would take test reports from engineers, pilots, technicians & make "history manuals" that documented design suggestions/changes, theoretical/actual tests & results with commentaries from all persons involved. Most of what she did involved jet's & jet engines.

 

[Vagrant]

I just finished the first service at 750 miles. I did it early because I am sticking it in the truck Sunday am and going to Athens Ohio to ride the "Windy 9" for 4 days.
the only sticker that is 1/2 visable on the rear fender is for tire pressure. there might be one under the seat but it has a bag and bead seat on it and I'm too lazy to look.
If in fact the factory set the valves at 6&8 then there was no wear and past history with 10 other Guzzi's says BS! I put them at 4&6and it continues to run great. Maybe some dealer out there can get the real scoop from the horse's mouth.
As for oil, I of course did the filter too and started with 1800 ml. that put it at 1/2 way between the bottom of the stick and the raised line on the hash marks when just seated on top of the crank case. I put in 100 ml more and that brought it up to almost the raised line when seated on the CC boss and 2/3 up from the line but not to the end of the hash marks when screwed in. that's plenty and possibly too much based on my 2015 V7 history.
Lots of positive changes to the 17. a filter in the bottom of the transmission. just pull it out clean and reinstall. mine was clean inside but had a strip of the black silicone sealer they used to seal the cases attached.
WATCH OUT! Many of the oil retaining plugs have O-rings and they like to stick. don't loose them.
I was surprised to see they have finally gone to a rubber gasket for the rocker covers. However the two stupid little torx screws setting in metal bushings holding the new plastic clip that retains the spark plug wire to the rocker cover is a poor design. Lots of them will be lost. while I'm bitching the only other stupid IMHO change is they can't seem to decide if they want to use torx or allen head screws.
I never found one loose screw or fastener! wow! even the header bolts were still tight enough. when I did my 600 on the 2015 I don't think anything was tight.
I'm very impressed with the torque and running of their new engine. the fueling is as good as anything I have ever driven. radically better than the 2015. It sucks.

 

[john zibell]

while I'm bitching the only other stupid IMHO change is they can't seem to decide if they want to use torx or allen head screws.

Seems they have the same problem that BMW has!!

 

[Vagrant]

fun fact. 30 years ago or so Stihl designers got smart and made every screw in all products a T27 Torx head and made them all the same length too. even if the screw was a 4, 5 or 6mm diameter. so with one tool you could take the entire product apart and never worry about what hole the screw came out of. If you took any other brand apart everything had to be labeled or you were going to put a long screw into a shallow hole and maybe break through a thin case.
then all of the designs that had been there since the war ended started retiring and the new ones that took over were so busy trying to save weight and the quantity of fasteners that they started using all different sizes again but at least they stuck with all torx heads.
if you aren't aware from what i was told the torx came about from the movie camera business where 30,000 RPM could be attained and regular screws backed out. a properly made torx has its own serrated washer moulded right on it and you can put about 30-50% more torque on it than a allen head.

 

[JACoH]

My tech at Guzzi Portland says valve clearance should be the .006" & .008" as listed on the rear fender sticker, not .004" and .006" that the factory shop manual says. After his adjusting my valves at 1000 miles, no excessive noise. Maybe .005 and .007 is the happy medium.

 

[Vagrant]

Yep, it has a sticker. 6 & 8. now wouldn't you be more prone to believe the shop book? Especially since this thing runs so strong low down. like 500 RPM less it seems than the 2015.

 

[Dinsdale Piranha]

I plugged in the 2000 into one of those internet conversion calculators and that's what it showed. But John is right. 67.62 oz. 2.11qt.
I hadn't put the cm3 behind it so maybe that's what messed it up.
here is the page from the shop manual. am I just reading it wrong?

It clearly says "... but not screwed in", but that page is interesting to me for a completely different reason. How does the oil level drop on the dipstick when the engine is cold? The expansion coefficient of oil is NOT that great. The oil level should be at its highest after the engine has sat for a long time, like over night, allowing the maximum amount of oil to drain back into the sump. On their logic, if you leave the engine sitting long enough, all of your oil would disappear .

 

[farmboy460]

There is always 5&7

 

[Bill Hagan]

I just finished the first service at 750 miles. I did it early because I am sticking it in the truck Sunday am and going to Athens Ohio to ride the "Windy 9" for 4 days.

****

I'm very impressed with the torque and running of their new engine. the fueling is as good as anything I have ever driven. radically better than the 2015. It sucks.

Steve, I'm a bit of a mere kibitzer in this thread, but it's fun commenting from the bleachers.

So, a few gratuitous remarks:

1. You did the first service early ... at 750 miles? Thought the first service was due at 1000 km, i.e., 620 miles or so. No big deal, but the "early" part puzzled me.

2. I put about 200 miles on brother Michael's twin of your V7 before its first service and thought it mighty fine. That said, I do not think -- OK, based on anecdata from my seat-of-the-pants dyno! -- that its fuel delivery or any other aspect of its running is "radically better" than my Stornello. Obviously, YMMV and does.

3. Why not use the "looser" 6 & 8? That sort of "noise" is nice. I think I'll call Rod at Marietta and ask what he did to Michael's.

4. On sidestand, with dipstick resting on lip (i.e., not screwed in) the oil level immediately after first service was at the top of the stick's scored surface and barely onto the bare rod. Steve, were your observations of level based on your V7 strapped upright on a lift or on sidestand? I need to do same check with Stornello as, sadly (because of travels) I've put zero miles on it since it returned on trailer from Atlanta.

5. Have fun in Ohio! Great roads in and around Athens.

Bill

P.S. Leaving Atlanta Tuesday morning with an empty m/c trailer. Anyone in area need (free) delivery up to top of Virginia or nearby?

 

[Vagrant]

1. For some reason I thought they changed the 17 to 900 miles. will look it up someday. oil coming out looked cleaner thn when they put it in.
2. Maybe the 16 got better too. my 15 has the cold (I ain't ready to go yet" feature.
3. I would have but when the service manual says 4&6 you tend to believe it. the Ohio windy 9 should loosen them back up a bit..
4. I have one of those good wheel chocks from Alabama. lets it stay nice and upright. in Az I use a 2x4 and another probably 1/2" piece of wood to check that bike.
Dinsdale, read where the bottom arrow is. it says screw it in and then check it.

 

[Dinsdale Piranha]

Dinsdale, read where the bottom arrow is. it says screw it in and then check it.

Yeh, I know, it says both, but my interest is how on earth the engine oil level drops overnight, assuming no ginormous leaks. I can be pretty dim, but I can see no way how checking your oil level before starting the engine in the morning can be anything but the most accurate check. The point is, MG literature is full of inconsistencies and contradictions from the sales brochures onwards.

 

[farmboy460]

The cold check should be good as all the oil has drained back into the sump. I never even considered the thought about checking them on the side stand. But thinking about the angle that the dipstick goes into the block perhaps that is about the same level in the side stand or standing upright. I think I will check that today with the bike on the center stand them with it on the side stand. To me at times I have read instructions that would appear to have been double translated first to another language and from the translation to English.