Dry Clutch Replacement on Norge

[afulldeck]

I now have the new dry clutch replacement plates and springs for a 2007 Norge.

I'm really not sure why it failed so soon, less than 30K but now I need to do some wrenching and I am in need of some advice on which is the best way to approach this particular job.

The shop manual shows replacing the dry clutch when the engine removed from the frame. Is this really the best way to tackle this job or is there a way to replace the dry clutch while the engine is still inside the frame? And advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[john zibell]

Either the engine or transmission has to go. Pick your poison. If you just pull the transmission, you will still need to block up (support) the rear of the engine. I'm hoping Pete chimes in as I believe he has been into the CARC machines.

 

[afulldeck]

So what does everyone think? Is it easier to pull the transmission or the engine? I'm thinking its probably easier to pull the transmission so long as the rear of the bike is suspended from above.

Thoughts?

 

[john zibell]

To pull the transmission, the CARC and much of the suspension components have to go. I do know on the spine bikes, it is a 50/50 proposition on whether it is easier to pull the engine or transmission. It just depends on your preference. It would give you an opportunity to grease all the suspension links though if you decide to drop the transmission.

 

[afulldeck]

To pull the transmission, the CARC and much of the suspension components have to go. I do know on the spine bikes, it is a 50/50 proposition on whether it is easier to pull the engine or transmission. It just depends on your preference. It would give you an opportunity to grease all the suspension links though if you decide to drop the transmission.

John, Any ideas how many miles (roughly) you should get on a guzzi dry clutch? I know its driver dependent, but I am only looking for an estimate. It seems like a lot of work to replace when compare to other dry clutch bikes (ducs) or wet clutch (vstroms).

 

[john zibell]

I've seen the two plate dry clutches last close to a 100K miles or more. It depends on the rider mostly. Usually I do replace them earlier for folks because I'm in there because something else failed (usually a transmission input seal or something) and since the labor involved to get something like that, I'm already at the clutch and once at the flywheel, it is less than 15 minutes to do the clutch. So, if all the seals hold up, the two plate clutch lasts a long time. The old single plates didn't hold up at all, and the jury is still out on the new single plates, like in the Stelvio.

 

[afulldeck]

I've seen the two plate dry clutches last close to a 100K miles or more. It depends on the rider mostly. Usually I do replace them earlier for folks because I'm in there because something else failed (usually a transmission input seal or something) and since the labor involved to get something like that, I'm already at the clutch and once at the flywheel, it is less than 15 minutes to do the clutch. So, if all the seals hold up, the two plate clutch lasts a long time. The old single plates didn't hold up at all, and the jury is still out on the new single plates, like in the Stelvio.

Well that is good to know that you've seen greater than 100k with the two dry clutch plates. Means that once they are changed they should be good for quite some time.

John, it sounds like I should be changing seals while I do the clutch replacement. Any suggestions on which ones I should change? I think it would be smart to order them in advance of taking the bike apart....

 

[john zibell]

If you have it apart, I do everything that I can while it is apart. That said, I'd consider engine rear main plus the transmission input and output seals, the seal for the selector shaft if easily accessible, and the o-ring seal for the hydraulic clutch. With the few miles it has I don't believe it would be necessary to go into the transmission itself for anything.

 

[bronco_breva]

I've recently striped my 05 Breva due to an oil leak (turned out to be the welch plug). I replaced the clutch at the same time. The old clutch was just under 1/2 worn after 35,000 miles.

As far as i'm aware the engine can not be taken out on its own, however there is a way of taking the gearbox off but it still involves removal of carc, Swing arm, exhaust, foot rest hangers and disconnecting clutch pipe. Then all the engine bolts except 1 so you can tilt the engine. If your replacing seals as well take the lot out, its going to be a lot easer to work on.

Your also going to need a couple or special tools, one to hold the flywheel and one to all align the cluch.

I used a car engine hoist to lift and lower the fraim off the engine and a bike jack to support the engine. It took a day to strip down with a friends help and another day to put back together on my own.

Bronco Breva.

 

[afulldeck]

Your also going to need a couple or special tools, one to hold the flywheel and one to all align the clutch.

Bronco Breva.

Are these tools absolutely necessary? I don't have either. I thought I could align the clutch if I was very, very careful marking the old one verses the new one. Not sure about the flywheel yet.

 

[john zibell]

Your also going to need a couple or special tools, one to hold the flywheel and one to all align the clutch.

Bronco Breva.

Are these tools absolutely necessary? I don't have either. I thought I could align the clutch if I was very, very careful marking the old one verses the new one. Not sure about the flywheel yet.

You need the tools. I think Moto International will rent them. If you are doing the transmission seals, you will need the tools for those areas too. Get the tools, it will save a bunch of grief.

 

[bronco_breva]

You need to hold the flywheel whilst the clutch retaining bolts are removed and retightened.. The clutch has 2 plates that have to be aligned, if they are slightly out you could wreck the gearbox imput shaft.

Read this thread for more info, https://www.guzzitech.com/component/jm ... /2598.html

 

[afulldeck]

Your also going to need a couple or special tools, one to hold the flywheel and one to all align the clutch.

Bronco Breva.

Are these tools absolutely necessary? I don't have either. I thought I could align the clutch if I was very, very careful marking the old one verses the new one. Not sure about the flywheel yet.

You need the tools. I think Moto International will rent them. If you are doing the transmission seals, you will need the tools for those areas too. Get the tools, it will save a bunch of grief.

I have a call out to MI. Hopefully they will call back. However, talking with Gearhead in Ottawa, they don't rent out tools and they want $263.99 for the clutch fitting tool (30.90.65.10) which I think is very hwy robbery the flywheel and startup gear tool (12.91.18.01) is 37.99 which is more reasonable.

 

[john zibell]

The price for the tool is high, but just about impossible to do the job right without it. You will need to somehow center the hub gear on a bolt and use that bolt to draw in the pressure plate so you can set the clutch plates and install the ring gear. If you do buy the special tool, I put a wire tie on the bolt on the engine side to make withdrawing the tool easier once the clutch/ring gear is assembled.

One thing to consider, take the price of the tools and compare that to the labor charge for a dealer to do the job. I don't know the book time for a CARC bike, but the book time for a Tonti is 6 hours. If your shop's rate is say $80.00 an hour ( $80.00 X 6 = $480.00) , the price of the tools is a bargain. Use them once and they can pay for themselves.

 

[Bisbonian]

Use them once and they can pay for themselves.

Then rent them out when others post up with a clutch issues.

 

[afulldeck]

If you do buy the special tool, I put a wire tie on the bolt on the engine side to make withdrawing the tool easier once the clutch/ring gear is assembled.

One thing to consider, take the price of the tools and compare that to the labor charge for a dealer to do the job. I don't know the book time for a CARC bike, but the book time for a Tonti is 6 hours. If your shop's rate is say $80.00 an hour ( $80.00 X 6 = $480.00) , the price of the tools is a bargain. Use them once and they can pay for themselves.

Thanks John, but I don't understand your statement above in Bold. According to the picture in the shop manual it looks like the tool is always on the outside or at least facing you (guess I will only understand this once I take it apart.)

I would really prefer to pay to have the work done. But having the dealer do the work isn't an option, seems there isn't mechanic. And no other dealers will work on Guzzi's in this area. So I am forced to be a guzzi mechanic. Guess I am going have to bit the bullet and buy this tool.

 

[john zibell]

To answer your question on the wire tie. The tool fits snugly into the clutch disks. It makes it much easier to remove the tool if there is a wire tie on the bolt so you can pull the tool using the bolt. If you don't you can have a tool in place that is hard to remove. After the first time using the special tool, I went to the tool box and put a wire tie on the bolt for the next time.

 

[afulldeck]

To answer your question on the wire tie. The tool fits snugly into the clutch disks. It makes it much easier to remove the tool if there is a wire tie on the bolt so you can pull the tool using the bolt. If you don't you can have a tool in place that is hard to remove. After the first time using the special tool, I went to the tool box and put a wire tie on the bolt for the next time.

Thanks. Appreciate the clarity. Someone pointed me to the tool on the MG site that is different from the OEM tool. Looks like it should do the trick.

mgcycle.com/product_info.php ... ts_id=2618

 

[Rafael]

I have the Stein-Dense clutch alignment tool that MG Cycle used to carry.
sd-tec.de/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/112587 - Looks like MG Cycle replaced this one with the new model linked above. Looks like the new model has an hex head (under the bolt) that can be used to keep the flywheel from turning, so maybe this is two tools in one. But they don't make that claim, so if its not sturdy enough using it to keep the flywheel from turning may damage it.

Anyway, if yo want to make your own, you can use your old clutch hub, if its slightly worn that is. Along with a washer (for the bolt head), centering sleeve and the proper bolt to complete the tool set. You would get a new tool and new input hub for a little more than the cost of a new hub.

I have a hand full of home made tools. The last tool I made was a input clutch hub holder to be used when an impact wrench is used to spin off the center nut. It's made of an old friction plate an a piece of hardwood bolted to it. The wood jambs into the starter area and keeps the hub from spinning - worked great - total cost about .5 USD. for (2) 1/4" bolts and nuts.

John Z, can you post a pic of wire tie. I don't get it. :S

 

[mbtech]

Hey gang! I have read this post with much intrest as I am replacing the clutch disc's on my 07 Norge. It has 68, 000 miles on it as of right now and when the clutch slipped on me while accelerating on the freeway I knew it was time.
One question I have is on the clutch release rod. One end is smooth and perfect while the other end has scoring and a divet burneshed in the end. Also the amount of travel in the clutch release piston area is only 2.5 to 3.0MM. Does that sound right? I think the rod has been worn down. As measured it is about 18.5cm long. Is there a spec on this rod or the amount the piston should extend out of the back of the transmission? Thanks for all the advice in advance.
P.S. the picture of Bronc-brevas bike looks just like mine. Removed the complete engine and trans together after removing the carc and suspension. I also found the bearings in the carc pivot were never lubed and have scored and fell apart when I touched them while cleaning the frame. I can post pics later if anyone would care to see.