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Errors in the V7iii Service Manual

D

Dinsdale Piranha

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Contributor
Joined
Jul 16, 2017
Messages
455
Location
West Oz
I'm sure there are plenty, but just to get the ball rolling:
Pages 102 and 103 show the wiring diagrams for all 4 variants of the V7iii. Both wiring diagrams show a 3 phase (3 wire) permanent magnet alternator. On page 106 there is a colour photo of the stator wiring plug which attaches onto the rec/reg. It clearly shows single phase (2 wire) stator wiring. I'm pretty sure it is, in real life, a single phase alternator.

I think it would be a good idea to start cataloguing the errors and contradictions for everyone's benefit. Perhaps someone with the knowledge and skills could periodically update the .pdf manual which Todd has so generously provided. This happens on other sites I frequent and is really valuable for all concerned.
 
Good catch. Page 108 reverts to describing the 3 phase alternator.

For a correct detection of the alternator voltage, a measurement must be carried out using
alternatively the 3 engine side connector pins: stage "1" (pin 1-2), stage "2" (pin 1-3), stage
"3" (pin 2-3).

My V-III Stone is out on a 25 day rental, so I can't check what it actually is.

Congratulations on being able to read those wiring diagrams on page 102 & 103. They make my eyes water. There is a better wiring diagram available (2Q000297WD for the Stone) which makes it a lot easier to read with filters to highlight the various areas.

This must be the first time there has been an error in a Guzzi manual. :giggle:
 
JACoH said:
And of course, page 60 under maintenance...Valve clearances should be 0.15 mm Intake and 0.20 mm Exhaust.
Click to expand...

kiwi dave said:
Where do you get the information to base this on? Everything I've found point to 0.10 intake and 0.15mm exhaust. ...
Click to expand...

The valve clearances of .15mm (.006") Intake and .20mm (.008") Exhaust were the standard values for the Heron head small block motors, since almost the beginning as I remember.

But: the V7III is an almost completely new motor albeit with a very similar design. The V7III engine is essentially a downsized V9 engine in nearly all respects ... It has hemispherical combustion chamber heads, not Heron heads. I've found that MOST specifications and torque, etc, values for the V7III motor should be taken from the V9 specs. The V9 Engine Service manual specifies .10mm (.004") Intake and .15mm (.006") Exhaust clearances, same as the V7III Service Manual.

Interesting that the underseat sticker says the other specification, though. I suspect this means a call to Moto Guzzi to get the correct values to use.

G

Addendum: I sent email to both Piaggio/Moto Guzzi Customer Care and to my euro-moto mailing list on this discrepancy. Let's see what MG has to say.
 
Last edited:
Okay: no more ambiguity about this. One of the folks on my euro-moto mailing list contacted his brother, who works for Piaggio/Moto Guzzi in Italy, and sent me back the following note:

On Feb 11, 2018, at 6:37 AM, Fabio A. wrote:

straight from the mouth of the guy which was involved in the development
at the engine bench: .10/.15
Click to expand...

Ignore that sticker under the seat: it's the bit of the documentation that is in error.
 
Here is what I received via e-mail from Piaggio.....(reference v7 III)


Thank you for contacting us at Piaggio Group Americas, Inc. Customer Care. When looking into this the correct valve clearances are on the label under the seat.


Kindest Regards,


Lisa C. McMillin

Customer Care Specialist
 
I got the same reply. I trust my connections more than that ... that's the same group that created the incorrect label in the first place. My connection is in Moto Guzzi engine development team: he gave me the answer from the guy who designed the camshaft and lifter setup.

There's obviously a disconnect happening at the company between Piaggio and Moto Guzzi documentation and development teams. I've informed my friend, but don't expect immediate changes.
 
Last edited:
And for the "too loud rocker noise" crowd, .005/.007" is tried and true. ;)
 
LOL!

In truth, the .002" difference between the "correct by the engineer" and the "correct by the sticker" settings really shouldn't make all that much difference at all.

In fact, when racing pushrod street bikes like Nortons, Triumphs, etc., in the 1960s and 1970s, the usual practice was to double the valve clearances: Because on the race track, the engine was going to be used nearer to full power most of the time and the pushrods, cylinder, and head would expand more with the additional heat and at differential rates. It needed more cold valve clearance so that the valves didn't get too tight and burn on the track. I remember that they always sounded like they were thrashing the valves when you started them up, but after a couple of hot practice laps they sounded completely normal. :D

Same goes for the Guzzi engines... The differential is a little less because all the modern ones have alloy cylinders as well as cases and heads so the expansion is more even over all (those old Nortons and Triumphs had cast iron cylinders...).

G
 
I never had to worry about that aspect of race tuning, I road raced a Kawasaki H2 750 Triple in 1972-3. I miss the 2 strokes.
 
heh. I was never into two-smokes ... I and my friends were all four-strokers. (My brother was a serious two-stroker for years, however, and raced Yamaha TZ250s some years later. I think he still has his.)

The valve clearance machinations dropped away to nothing or almost nothing when it came to SOHC or DOHC four-stroke engines. I had a project building Honda 400-4 engines for a short time and while the clearances were larger than the stock .001"-002" engine and cam, the cams were custom race cams and spec'ed for .003"-.004" as they came.
 
I just downloaded the engine service manual for the v7iii and it also says .15 and .1 mm so I'm going with that.
 
The sticker in question is most likely a US only emissions system regulation, added to the bikes only for the US market by a completely different set of people than those who designed the engine and wrote the engine service manual. I'll be taking out the heat gun soon to eliminate these noisome stickers ... Already got rid of the irritating ones on the fork crown and the top of the tank. :)
 
Godfrey said:
The sticker in question is most likely a US only emissions system regulation, added to the bikes only for the US market by a completely different set of people than those who designed the engine and wrote the engine service manual. I'll be taking out the heat gun soon to eliminate these noisome stickers ... Already got rid of the irritating ones on the fork crown and the top of the tank. :)
Click to expand...
Methinks you're right. No stickers at all on the tank or fork crown either.
 
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