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Everything you ever wanted to know about the 1200 8V engine tappet failure but were afraid to ask.

Discussion in 'CARC' started by scottmastrocinque, May 27, 2017.

  1. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Trevor Parkins and GT-Rx® like this.
  2. Trevor Parkins

    Trevor Parkins Just got it firing!

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    Hi Scott
    That was fantastic info, I have just purchased a 1200 Sport 2013 with really low useage From what you are reporting it should be a roller with VIN ZGULPRO12M200024 Do you think this is the case with this Sports 1200
    Best Regards
    Trevor
     
  3. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Hi Trevor,

    Like everything else in Australia, I have no flipping idea mate! The information I have is for North America:

    According to Piaggio, motorcycles produced after these specific Serial Numbers / Production Dates, have the implemented design change valve train, and are "roller" engines.

    Model - Engine Designation - Last 5 Digits of Serial Number - Date of Production

    Stelvio - AC - After AC12596 - 03/12/2012
    Griso - A8 - After 13524 - 04/12/2012
    Norge - AA - After 12214 - 04/18/2012​

    I think it would be safe to assume that your bike, being a 2013, has been factory rollerized, but you can verify for sure by looking under the valve cover. I posted pictures in the original posting of what it should look like.

    I sure wish they had sold that model here in 2013 because I would have bought one in a second flat!

    Beautiful bike if you ask me.

    Guzzi_1200Sport4v_RHF_1024.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  4. Trevor Parkins

    Trevor Parkins Just got it firing!

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    Thanks Scott for such a quick reply
    I have had 1 weekend ownership and I am a complete convert from BMW, Triumph and the 50 other bikes I have owned over the last 47 years
    This is basically a new bike ( had 101 kms on it) and has been laid up since 2013
    I have a free 1500 km service in a week or two so I will get them to check when they set the tappets
    Many Thanks Trevor Moto Guzzi Sport 1200.JPG
     
  5. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    Trevor, I am pretty sure you have an A7 Motor (have a look at the engine number to confirm)! None of these were ever rollerised, from the factory, and will require this to be carried out sooner rather than later. All 8V Sports had this motor. Contact Mario at Thunderbikes in Bassendean, and he will guide you in the right direction if the roller upgrade has not been done. Mario is a good guy and has been involved with MG since he started his apprenticeship with the importer, Ted Stolarski - this was way back when. Visit his showroom, it's GOOD!
     
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  6. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    That's my understanding too. I also believe that 2012 was the last year of manufacture for the 1200 Sports, which is probably why they were never included in the rollerizing updates. One quick way for Trevor to confirm this is by looking at the letter before the "M" on the VIN number.

    A = 2010
    B = 2011
    C = 2012
    D = 2013

    Actually, strictly speaking, this is the year of the model, not manufacturing.
     
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  7. Trevor Parkins

    Trevor Parkins Just got it firing!

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    Thanks Tony Yes it is a A7 motor , Mario is a good guy and tells me I have to wait till it starts failing to get the parts from the factory which does go against my better judgement a bit. I wonder what the factory charges for the parts , might be an option
     
  8. Trevor Parkins

    Trevor Parkins Just got it firing!

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    Cheers Kiwi Dave Yes it is a D on the VIN Thanks for that info mate
     
  9. Oz1200Guzzi

    Oz1200Guzzi High Miler

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    The flat tappets start failing fairly quickly, (as low as a few thousand km) and this can be seen in photographs. Dealing with the old importers (JSG) was fairly easy, but I think now there needs to be an education programme with the new ones, to start seeing a turnaround. Removing the flat tappets and inspecting them closely, photographing the evidence for warranty is the best place to start. MG should come to the party for parts, but usually you will have to spot for the labour.

    Unfortunately, MG should have done a recall, globally, and rectified all these issues. Instead they have elected to turn a blind eye, and have the hide to charge you for the labour.

    The really sad bit is, that importers around the world seem to accept this as "normal". Sad indeed.
     
  10. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    Here is a picture of followers and cam after just 1,500 miles If you can zoom in you can even see the wear on the cam. 20160316_144246.jpg
     
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  11. kaj wolf

    kaj wolf Just got it firing!

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    So goin on a three week trip on friday as planned - forget about that!
    After discovered all the threds around here about flat tappets faliures i´ve just had to take a look before the 8000km long trip... And there will be no trip.

    The worn on left exhaust tappet was about 1,6mm!
    Camshaft round like peas.. Laugh or cry, i don´t know yet but my holiday just seems to slip out of my hands..

    So, the guzzi is the "new" Stelvio with just over 30000km on the trip. Early 2011 model - the first year.

    How big is the chances that guzzi replaces the accident? My dealer is bankroupt since long and in sweden guzzis is as commond as tuna in toilets...

    Pictures at the parts 7.JPG 5.JPG 2.JPG 10.JPG 9.JPG
     
  12. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    As far as I know, a dealer has to submit the claim. Guzzi will cover the kit, but you will have to cover the labor. The pictures you have should document the claim, so you might be able to start the process long distance with a cooperative dealer. With the degree of wear, the engine should be thoroughly flushed to remove metal contamination in the oil galleys. It wouldn't hurt to inspect the rod big ends either. If you see damage there, then inspect the mains also.
     
  13. Norm B.

    Norm B. Just got it firing!

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    Nice looking bike!
     
  14. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin Just got it firing!

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    My 2010 Sport 1200 4V has covered 31,000 Km and now starting to get very rattly in the cam department with pinking under full load which is a new thing for it. Yet to check the valve clearances to see if they are opening up as the cams fail ?
     
  15. kiwi dave

    kiwi dave GT Reference

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    After you do that, I suggest you check your followers as per the first two pictures above. I'd almost guarantee yours will come out a lot worse.
     
  16. Richard Martin

    Richard Martin Just got it firing!

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    I suspect you are probably dead right. However the local agent in Wellington told me a few weeks ago that Guzzi will not supply the parts until the failure is complete ? I was wanting to get it fixed proactively but it is without doubt getting sick by being very rattly in the head department and now this pinking when under load such as opening the throttle going up hill starting at 4000 rpm. It used to and should pull from that RPM like a train. It is no longer happy about that. Not sure whether to take it to the dealer yet as I bought this new in Tasmania in 2010, the dealer went broke not long after the first service ( nothing to do with me, I did pay him ) and although I have done regular annual servicing and logged it all, not being a dealer ........ don't fancy my chances ? ( Even sticking to the specified 10-60 oil change every 5000 km.) Any suggestions ?
     
  17. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Famiglia

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    There is enough evidence of failure now. Please get the bike fixed. With it this bad the engine should have a good flush as well.
     
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  18. Russell Taylor

    Russell Taylor Just got it firing!

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    Hi Scott,

    I have an 09 Stelvio with 36K miles on the clock. I have had it from 22K miles and thought it must have been rollerised, but on checking yesterday it seems not. I have contacted the dealer who sold the bike and they remember it well as they serviced it for three years, but they did not retrofit the roller cam followers. I have asked them why not and am awaiting a reply. Unfortunately they were culled in the great UK Moto Guzzi dealer cull of 2014 and no longer sell new Guzzis. If the bike had a full service history is there any responsibility on Piaggio to support the fitting of the later cam followers? I would be interested to know.
     
  19. Russell Taylor

    Russell Taylor Just got it firing!

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    The symptoms sound terminal and if you wait longer, the costs will be huge!
     
  20. scottmastrocinque

    scottmastrocinque High Miler GT Famiglia

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    Hi Russell,

    At this point in time, being 9 years since manufacturer, all you can do is have a current Moto Guzzi dealer submit a claim to Piaggio and see if they will honor the parts. I know that they will not pay for the labor this late in the game, and some here have said that they are now even refusing to pay for the parts as so many years have gone by. All you can do is try!

    The important thing here is to remain calm, polite and grateful. They really don't have to give you anything at all as the warranty is long gone.

    Good Luck!
     

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