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GuzziTech Power Commander V Information

Discussion in 'GT-Rx® Fueling' started by GT-Rx®, Jul 13, 2009.

  1. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    GuzziTech thanks Dynojet (and all of those who purchased the custom run) to bring the Power Commander V to fruition. The posts below chronicle the journey that was taken for nearly 2 years. Feel free to contact me with any questions via PM or direct e-mail; Todd at GuzziTech.com (Technical Advisor to Dynojet for all things Guzzi, and a Certified Power Commander & Tuning Link Tech)

    GT makes this technology available to fit ALL '00~current Guzzi.
    On newer Guzzi with 02-sensors, option #1 below handles low speed fueling by an 02-optimizer (all fueling below 40% throttle at all RPMs) which is included with the base PC-V -OR- you can start with the GT-Rx ECU Performance Re-flash which is Step/Stage I of the full kit; It provides many improvements for ALL fueling: Performance, detonation and 02-sensor input elimination. It works very well stand-alone. It is required to give full fueling access to the PC-V/AT noted below (#3).
    For Big Block CARC Guzzi (5AM) & Cal 1400 (7SM) ECU info see the Q&A thread HERE
    For those with a 15M/RC ECU Guzzi (Most Cali/Cal Vintage, V11 Sports, Breva 750 & '09-12 V7C) , please see this thread HERE for info. -- and we are now flashing the '13+ V7s (MIU ECU), see our online Store >HERE<.


    *For Non-public roadway use ONLY*
    1. PC-V w/02-optimizer $399.95/$499.95*: Power Commander V(5) - comes with one 02-optimizer for fueling below 40% throttle/*dual 02-optimizers add $100 -- the optimizer intercepts the stock 02-sensor/lambda wiring harness for dynamic fueling revisions below 40% throttle. 40% and above is handled statically by the PC-V.
    This does not address timing related issues such as pre-ignition/detonation (pinging), pop-on-decel or other performance timing ECU tweaks. Purchase info >CLICK HERE<
    2. GT-Rx™ ECU Re-flash -$250-395 (using your ECU only, or contact me to see if I have a core for exchange): Static revisions, which include stock 02-sensor input delete, revised fueling and timing (for performance, cold start and pre-detonation) for any modifications you have done to your bike. If you change any bolt-on modifications, it would require another re-flash unless using #3 below. This (ECU) mod can run stand-alone for drastically better running over stock. Not perfect, but very good. Requires electronic TPS reset by >Centurion-S Kit< or your local dealer immediately upon re-installation of the ECU. This provides full fueling access to the PC-V/AT (below). Purchase info >CLICK HERE<
    3. GT-Rx™ ECU, PC-V & AutoTune $999.95/$1119.95* (see AutoTune note below): Fully dynamic fueling revision for each second the engine is running, from idle to redline, with the power of the (supplied wide-band Bosch 02-sensor w/) AutoTune module coupled with the PC-V (mandatory). User adjustable fueling, and no need to visit the dyno for custom mapping. Any new modifications to the bike can be automatically corrected by AutoTune with a few keystrokes (OK, and often a little input from me.).
    Purchase info >CLICK HERE AT-200< >CLICK HERE AT-300<
    *AutoTune AT-200 (single sensor) or AT-300 (dual sensor): included in above $279.95/$399.95: Piggbyback module to PC-V (only) above that provides real-time fueling changes, on-the-fly, as you ride... using a user-set Air Fuel Ratio (AFR). The AutoTune unit plugs into the PC-V module (ONLY) and allows you to pick/change your AFR, and your bike will auto-adjust, real-time, as you ride. Allows you to build/store a map for *your* bike by a simple click of the software, and store it on the PC-V... which then AutoTune will then use as a baseline to correct from.

    Comment/questions to; Todd at GuzziTech.com

    Instead of talking about POWER numbers, posted below are the Air/Fuel ratio graphs of % throttling.

    The flatter the line, the more crisp the throttle response.

    The 20% graph below is as delivered, OEM fueling. Red trace is as delivered, blue lines in the bottom two graphs (40% & 100% throttle) are from a PC corrected fueling on a Norge 1200.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    PC-V, AutoTune Module & ECU reflash:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2014
  2. Mike.C

    Mike.C GT Famiglia

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW.

    I'm First!
     
  3. klaas123

    klaas123 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW.

    I'm in for the PC-V & GT-Rx ECU package, below 40% throttle is what bothers me most.
     
  4. pete roper

    pete roper GT Godfather!

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW.

    As you know I'm in Todd.
     
  5. double.d

    double.d Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW.

    So, correct me if i'm wrong please.
    1. To get the Griso running at optimum fueling of 13.2 - 13.6 as per the last 2 graphs i am going to have to buy both the PCV and the ECU unit ?

    2. The ECU is a set non adjustable unit with the 13.2 - 13.6 set for below 40% throttle.

    3. The PCV is used to set the desired fueling 13.2 - 13.6 above 40% throttle and would enable me to build a power map and cruise map, so to speak ?

    4. Will this stuff be redundant when Dynojet release it's 02 controler.

    5. Are these mod/s performance enhancing ( more grunt, more go), or are they just to stop pinging and deceleration popping and general rough running ?

    I am after more grunt and go. I am happy with the way my Griso runs so i don't want to spend $1000 bucks on improved running.
     
  6. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW.

    double.d wrote:
    1. For fueling adjustments below 40% throttle, yes you will.
    2. Incorrect.
    3. Correct... though you will need a toggle switch to do so, and without the AutoTune module, you would want to build these maps on a dyno or data-logging wideband A/F gauge that records throttle position and RPM.
    4. DJ's 02-controller will eliminate the need for the ECU swap, however I will be revising the timing and a few other parameters (altitude compensation and warm up) on the OEM ECU. The PC-V will only allow revisions from 40% throttle and up with the DJ 02-controller. Edit: Also, it is hard to say when a 02-controller might be released. It might be another year.
    5. Performance... the PC is not a "more power" device. It is a air/fuel correction device. I suggest you read THIS. You will need to modify the intake/exhaust (or more, i.e. porting/flow work) to gain performance, but you will need a PC-V (or eq.) to correct the fueling. I can tell you that richening the mixture increases power on average of 7% (or more) on a stock machine. Have you ever ridden a custom mapped PCIII Guzzi? If not, I highly advise finding one to ride... and then ask your closing statement again.
     
  7. NeroGuzzi

    NeroGuzzi Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW.

    You know I'm in.
     
  8. guzzi jon

    guzzi jon GT Reference

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    As for hp gains, my fine running 02 Lemans with x-over and mistrals went from 77 bhp to 85 bhp at the rear wheel, and got better mileage. but more important, it ran super sweet, actually perfect.... best running guzzi I ever rode.... a PC properly mapped guzzi is like a new machine, ride one, you'll get the bits...
     
  9. robertmtz

    robertmtz Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Todd -
    I am in as well!
    Bob
     
  10. klaas123

    klaas123 Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    RacerX wrote:
    I don't see that happening anytime soon (if ever) without chainging the ECU because when you richen up the closed loop portion by reducing the O2 sensor output the service light comes on.
    That's my experience with the Fat Duc anyway, you can't fool the ECU so it seems.
    So I'm going the GT-Rx ECU swap route now.
     
  11. Steak

    Steak Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Todd,

    If I am correct in assuming that the potentially forthcoming DJ O² gizmo will be fully compatible with this version of the PC-V, then yes. I am in.
     
  12. roadscum

    roadscum Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Todd, is the Auto Tune required for for optimium performance above 40% throttle? I understand that Auto Tune will allow multiple maps but that does not interest me.
    I guest the question is......... what advantage is gained by installing the PV-V without the Auto Tune?

    Regards, Paul
     
  13. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    roadscum wrote:
    Paul, under seperate thread I mentioned that I will not be able to build/offer maps for every bike/mod combo. That said, if you purchase a PC-V, you can have a local Dynojet "Tuning Link" dyno shop build you a map, or you can use the AutoTune. Cost to do this is in favor of the AutoTune @$249. AutoTune offers full/real-time adjustments as you ride, all of the time... it's like having a new ECU that is user-adjustable for fueling.

    What I will try to do, is to build maps using AutoTune for any bikes I can get my hands on... however I cannot guarantee this in any timely fashion.
     
  14. guzzi jon

    guzzi jon GT Reference

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Todd,
    The AFR looks sweet, what kind of bhp or torque gains did the dyno show, particularly in the mid range?
    Thanks,
     
  15. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    guzzi jon wrote:
    4-5 HP & torque in the mid (3~4k rpm).

    So how many can I put you down for?
     
  16. Spaceclam

    Spaceclam Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Im Down for one, as soon as the money arrives. :cheer:
     
  17. sn0winSaskatoon

    sn0winSaskatoon Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Todd, I think I'm in, although as I'm a carburettor-loving EFI n00b I'll probably screw the whole thing up many times before getting it straight. I will pm you to arrange to pay the deposit. The loonie is back up to 0.90 US$ so I'm stalling to save more cash as your dollar inevitably declines against ours. :lol: (on the other hand our temperatures will soon be declining to much lower than yours so you get the last laugh anyway, but at least it's 30 degrees in Saskatchewan today!).

    Just so I'm clear. For 600 US$ I get the PCV and the autotune - which will improve fueling above 40% throttle but do nothing below 40%. And it's reasonably "plug & play" if all I want is improved A/F. Am I right? Or I can play with it and build one or more maps if I am so inclined to invest the time and energy and can figure out how to do so.

    I f I were to also do the ECU swap, is the autotune unit still required? And then I need a second port in the exhaust for an additional O2 sensor (or does the factory sensor go bye-bye). Did your estimated price of <1000 US$ include the PCV, autotune plus the ECU swap? Maybe I'm just slow or confused, well definitely the latter.

    Sorry if these are stupid questions, I'm reading and learning about EFI and this is a fun new hobby and time-sink and $-sink but of course some of you lot have been up to this for years... but it sure makes the carbs on my KTM seem real simple...

    One last question about the darn O2 sensors - re: the factory lambda sensor - can I easily tell if it's working properly using the VDSTS? I thought I remembered seeing it when I hooked it up just after you sent it to me, but after I bolted on the new mistral pipe to your GT crossover, my fuel consumption went through the roof (at least according to the onboard indicator). So I hooked up VDSTS yesterday and couldn't immediately figure out where to find the lambda sensor... perhaps I'm just stupid... seems to me I might have damaged it during installing the crossover, and the cable is pretty short... on the other hand, if it were malfunctioning I should get an error code...

    sorry if these are dumb questions,

    Ian
     
  18. GT-Rx®

    GT-Rx® Administrator Staff Member

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    sn0winSaskatoon wrote:
    Heh, you got it, and 30C?. You will learn to LOVE F.I. - I have. I prefer never to touch carbs again if I can help it. A laptop and mouse click is much easier and cleaner.
    No dumb questions... actually I've had others ask too, so;

    Correct, correct and correct. I can also set it up that we can share maps here, however *NOTHING* will be like using AutoTune on your/each bike.

    Yes if you want to real-time "AutoTune" as you ride. The 1000 US$ does not include the AutoTune... close to 1200 USD$ for everything. I will try to hold costs down, but this is a direct result of how many ECU exchange orders I get. It is a HUGE expense to me for the hardware/software to do this, and I'd like to recover a good chunk of my money on this equipment, on this 50 unit PC-V run.
    With the ECU swap, you will get FULL access to the fueling tables, as well as timing and other corrections I'll be doing on the ECU.

    Let's go to the VDST thread for this... see you there.

    Other/similar questions I've been asked offline/direct e-mail:

    Correct.

    General cruise on the highway is 20-40% throttle depending on winds. I've seen up to mid-50's~60% throttle with strong headwinds. You'll be largely in the 40+ range when "sport" riding... that and any brisk acceleration puts you strongly in the 60+ percentile. This has been documented on my bikes with the DJ LCD screen that shows real-time throttle position and real-time Air/Fuel Ratio. The LCD will plug into the PC-V as well for the true techies.
     
  19. SMChris

    SMChris Tuned and Synch'ed

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    Add me to the list, see PM.
     
  20. Mike.C

    Mike.C GT Famiglia

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    Re:pC-V Pre-order *ONLY* - Limited Run NOW

    GT-Rx wrote:
    Sorry mate, it went the way of the DODO when the board crashed last week, unless you can resurrect the PM data.

    If I can remember it, i'll re-type it tonight in an edit here.
     

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