Rollerization

[Lannis]

Still on the same old Stelvio, must have been ground pretty good at that mileage. Nice to know they did a good job for you.

The shop showed me the old tappets when I came in - (but I don't think I have the photos). I was a bit worried whether Piaggio would "play ball" for the kit on the basis of damage because the valve lash adjustment had changed only about .0015" on the exhausts and less than that on the intakes over the life of the bike (I had just checked them before I took it in) so I knew that the tappets were not grinding themselves away significantly. The tappet surfaces were discolored but were still intact and smooth and didn't appear to have lost any material. I was probably "just in time" - and thank goodness for these kinds of forums, because I wouldn't have done anything if I hadn't been reading all about it from every other soul on earth who owned a pre-2012 8-valver ...... !

I suspect that regular 10K km AGIP oil changes and some mechanical sympathy while riding may have helped it survive .... ?

Lannis

 

[abbienormal]

Do I think anything will come of it? No, but I filled out the NHTSA form for recalls. If Piaggio wants to try to sidestep their screw up the least I can do is stir the pot. The B.S. they put people through to prove it is a component failure is just their way of cutting losses. They know it is a problem. 3 different kits over 4 years of production of the engine before doing the repair on the assembly line proves they know. One complaint and nobody got killed means it gets filed under upset customer.

 

[KayJay]

Do I think anything will come of it? No, but I filled out the NHTSA form for recalls. If Piaggio wants to try to sidestep their screw up the least I can do is stir the pot. The B.S. they put people through to prove it is a component failure is just their way of cutting losses. They know it is a problem. 3 different kits over 4 years of production of the engine before doing the repair on the assembly line proves they know. One complaint and nobody got killed means it gets filed under upset customer.

I read somewhere that a firm was trying to get enough of us together to file a class action suit. Too bad nothing ever came of it.
i would have signed in a heart beat. Piaggio needs a serious wake up call! You are absolutely right, they know they have a design flaw and as you say they decided to side step the problem and put the burden on their customers. i decided to have a non Guzzi shop perform the rollerisation on my 2010 Stelvio as the only Guzzi dealer near me wanted to charge 5 hours labor just to do the inspection. Additionally the bike has only 4200 miles on it.Chances are there isn't enough wear to get the kits covered and, the bike has been sitting in my garage far more than it has been on the road. I had the first service (600 mile) done 3 years ago by a Guzzi dealer but I have not changed oil every year... This may also give Piaggio an excuse to weasel out of covering the kit.

 

[GTM®]

i decided to have a non Guzzi shop perform the rollerisation on my 2010 Stelvio as the only dealer near me wanted to charge 5 hours labor just to do the inspection.

That's beyond terrible. Shame on them. Most dealers here in SoCal will do the cam swap for ~3.5 shop hours paid for by the owner, and the update kit is fully covered by Piaggio (and only if you have a dealer do it). However, they do not cover proper full disassembly of the higher-mileage motors that need it. You should be good without the full disassembly with so few miles.

 

[KayJay]

That's beyond terrible. Shame on them. Most dealers here in SoCal will do the cam swap for ~3.5 shop hours paid for by the owner, and the update kit is fully covered by Piaggio (and only if you have a dealer do it). However, they do not cover proper full disassembly of the higher-mileage motors that need it. You should be good without the full disassembly with so few miles.

That would be great! Thanks so much for the info...If only I lived in SoCal!!! I've seen the video of Pete Roper pulling a cam box in 13 minutes so when I was quoted 5 hrs. minimum just to pull the boxes for an inspection i knew i would need to look elsewhere. The non Guzzi guys are great but I guess trying to get the kits covered is worth a try.

With that info maybe I'll approach another Guzzi dealer (this one 3 hrs away) and ask if they will perform the work for the more reasonable 3.5 hours. Just out of curiosity, what are the chances of actually being able to see any damage with such low mileage??

 

[abbienormal]

Mine showed slight wear at 2,900 miles. One local dealer did not want to touch it as Guzzi had refused an earlier claim. The other dealer quoted approximately 9 hours labor (not covered by Guzzi either way) and the bike would sit in his shop for at least 3 months before he could get to it. I ordered the kit from AF1 racing and installed it myself. I did it slowly as I had never done a Guzzi engine before but I'd put it at about 6-8 hours. I compiled all the needed information and sent it to Guzzi for warranty. After several phone calls I got an answer. Not done by a dealer. Not covered. End of discussion.

 

[GuzziMoto]

As nice as it is to get the kit for free (if you have a Guzzi dealer do it), if your local Guzzi dealer is not to be trusted with such work, doesn't have the time, or is pricing themselves out of normal range, I would rather do it myself even if I have to buy the kit. You could offer your Guzzi dealer a few hundred bucks to order you the kit under the premise that they would be doing the work but instead you do the work yourself. That would give them a few hundred bucks for ordering the kit. To me, he other option is they don't get any money as I would order the kit from a better source and do it myself.

 

[V700Steve]

The dealer may add an extra 2hrs on the normal time because of needing the bigger kit. Pretty costly doing it w/o warranty.
Where are you in FL?

 

[KayJay]

The dealer may add an extra 2hrs on the normal time because of needing the bigger kit. Pretty costly doing it w/o warranty.
Where are you in FL?

West Palm Beach. The closest dealer is Miami and is the one that quoted 5 hrs. for inspection only. The next closest dealer is in Sanford and is about a 3 hour drive. I may give him a call...

 

[KayJay]

As nice as it is to get the kit for free (if you have a Guzzi dealer do it), if your local Guzzi dealer is not to be trusted with such work, doesn't have the time, or is pricing themselves out of normal range, I would rather do it myself even if I have to buy the kit. You could offer your Guzzi dealer a few hundred bucks to order you the kit under the premise that they would be doing the work but instead you do the work yourself. That would give them a few hundred bucks for ordering the kit. To me, he other option is they don't get any money as I would order the kit from a better source and do it myself.

I was considering that but I worry about the cam chain tensioner deal. Really worried about breaking the tensioner while using a screwdriver to push it away from the cam chain...

 

[MotoJezek]

I also dreaded dealing with the tensioner, but it was not a problem, just had to -very gradually- apply pressure. Just know you need to get a torque-angle gauge to re-torque the head. They can be had for @$10.

I was considering that but I worry about the cam chain tensioner deal. Really worried about breaking the tensioner while using a screwdriver to push it away from the cam chain...

 

[V700Steve]

West Palm Beach. The closest dealer is Miami and is the one that quoted 5 hrs. for inspection only. The next closest dealer is in Sanford and is about a 3 hour drive. I may give him a call...

Find out if dealer in Sanford has done any. I know Miami has. Price would be OK if they leave it apart while they get parts and install. That is how I used to do it, so customer only pays once to inspect and repair. I was doing bikes w/more mileage though.
No need to worry about the tensioner, it's robust enough.

 

[KayJay]

Find out if dealer in Sanford has done any. I know Miami has. Price would be OK if they leave it apart while they get parts and install. That is how I used to do it, so customer only pays once to inspect and repair. I was doing bikes w/more mileage though.
No need to worry about the tensioner, it's robust enough.

My bike is a 2010 and from what I have read it requires a "B" kit (drill marks in cylinder) so it shouldn't require removing the heads (at least that is what I have read). The folks in Miami seem to be good people and they performed the first service on the bike at 600 miles. they also performed a fuel sending unit replacement under warranty. I had specifically mentioned the sending unit when i dropped the bike off for service and they neglected to take care of it while the bike was there. To make good on the issue they actually sent their mechanic all the way to my home nearly 2 hrs. away to replace the fuel sender. Unfortunately that sending unit failed also so i changed that one out myself. (quick connect was a PITA)! The point is the folks in Miami really are good folks. I may have been too quick to give up on them. Parking there is a royal PITA.

I'll speak with the folks in Sanford as well just to feel them out...

Thanks for the advise!

.

 

[KayJay]

I also dreaded dealing with the tensioner, but it was not a problem, just had to -very gradually- apply pressure. Just know you need to get a torque-angle gauge to re-torque the head. They can be had for @$10.

First I have heard about the need for the torque-angle gauge. Used to have one years ago when I worked o heavy equipment. That said I believe I need a "B" kit and from what I have read I shouldn't have to pull the heads if i take the plunge and do it myself. Kit is $1,100.00. Oouch !@#@!!

 

[canuck1969]

First I have heard about the need for the torque-angle gauge. Used to have one years ago when I worked o heavy equipment. That said I believe I need a "B" kit and from what I have read I shouldn't have to pull the heads if i take the plunge and do it myself. Kit is $1,100.00. Oouch !@#@!!

Depends on the bike. Some of the older 2V motors do require an angle torque. Most (actually think all but not 100% on the very 1st generation ones) of the 4V/8V do not, and use a stepped torque value. Just check the service manual to be sure

 

[john zibell]

Depends on the bike. Some of the older 2V motors do require an angle torque. Most (actually think all but not 100% on the very 1st generation ones) of the 4V/8V do not and use a stepped torque value. Just check the service manual to be sure

Yes they do use the stepped rotational torque, only problem is the initial start torque isn't listed in the manual. Thankfully Pete Roper provided that initial value some time ago and it is 15 Nm.

 

[canuck1969]

Yes they do use the stepped rotational torque, only problem is the initial start torque isn't listed in the manual. Thankfully Pete Roper provided that initial value some time ago and it is 15 Nm.

Pretty clear in my 2012 manual???

 

[john zibell]

Canuck,

Glad it is in the 2012 manual, it wasn't in the earlier ones. Earlier manuals stated to go to initial torque, then all another 90 degrees, then another 90 degrees for the long studs, but not the short ones. Kind of like the torque value for the alternator belt isn't provided, or is it for the newer bikes?

 

[canuck1969]

Canuck,

Glad it is in the 2012 manual, it wasn't in the earlier ones. Earlier manuals stated to go to initial torque, then all another 90 degrees, then another 90 degrees for the long studs, but not the short ones. Kind of like the torque value for the alternator belt isn't provided, or is it for the newer bikes?

50Nm or 37 ft-lbs with the specific tensioner tool.

 

[john zibell]

50Nm or 37 ft-lbs with the specific tensioner tool.

That sounds pretty high for a belt. That is about the same as the head torque for the older 2 valve engines. That might cause premature wear on the alternator bearings. BTW, is that for a new belt, or one that has been in service. The old manuals said there are two different torque values but never stated them.