V7 C-S Suspension Thread

[abbienormal]

Drain the oil and replace. The kit probably gives you a measurement from the top of the fork to the oil. Use that, not the volume (cc's). You changed the amount of components inside the fork so now the fork oil level is probably wrong unless Matris specifies the same as OEM Guzzi. Use what Matris specifies, not the Guzzi manual anymore. Save the instructions for future reference. Besides, you can put in some good synthetic fork oil and improve your fork action while at it. Pulling the fork tubes really isn't hard other than supporting the front of the bike.
Edit: 20wt?! Not unless specified by Matris. That sounds heavy to me but maybe that is what they call for.

 

[rbm]

Does the oil manufacturer publish a viscosity rating in cSt at 40 degrees C? Or can you tell us the Brand and Product Model you chose to use for the oil? 20W seems very heavy, as was pointed out. That's like 60-70 cST and I'm thinking proper viscosity is around 20-25 cSt.

 

[My name is Jeff]

I had this kit in my bike and it worked pretty good but I ended up getting the full cartridge kit which is a heaps better.
When I installed the drop in kit like yours I drained all the oil by using a length of aluminium tubing from a hobby store plus a small length of Model engine fuel line then used a large syringe from the chemist (drug store).
Using this method you can just suck the fork oil out so there is no need to disassemble the forks.
This might be a dumb question but did you drop the regulators in before the springs?
It's just the way you explained how you assembled the forks in your post that has me asking the question.

 

[My name is Jeff]

I was just thinking also that you need to replace the oil with 15w fork oil and use the right oil level to 60mm or 100mm?
So your better off sucking all that oil out and starting again and don't worry about getting the regulators out as the aluminium tube
You will be using from the hobby store will go through the hole in the regulator strait to the bottom of the fork.
Its a little bit fiddly to get the tube to the bottom of the fork once the regulators are in place but just measure from bottom of fork to the top and put a mark on the tube so you know it going to the bottom.
Jeff

 

[Stradagene]

I had this kit in my bike and it worked pretty good but I ended up getting the full cartridge kit which is a heaps better.

Hey Jeff,

Which "full cartridge" kit did you end up getting?

Any comments on how the "full kit" worked better than the 'Matris V7 Fork Kit w/Springs'?

 

[Scott Smith]

False alarm on the noise. The left turn signal was the culprit. After two days of riding it loosened up enough to hear it at idle. What a relief. As for just dropping the regulator in. Well yes. I placed it on the end of the spring and tried to lower it in as smooth as possible. I think they seated correctly? Today I eased the preload off a line. I'll update the feel after a couple more rides. As for fluid. Can all the fluid be removed without removing the forks? If so. I'll drain and replace with 15wt synthetic. Matris calls for 15wt ("as recommended to optimize the correct working of the fork kit") The fluid level confusion made me just leave it all alone to give it a few rides. Bottoming out is still an issue that i thought would've be resolved with a heavier spring? All and all it's a better setup no doubt. The proof is LA highway lane marker/reflector bumps disappeared after the upgrade. I'm still hoping that I can dial it in a bit more to my liking.

lost in translation: Matris assembly procedure
"now take the oil level at 60mm. which is the recommended level, while holding the crossbar in idle position, all way down." Note the oil level is referred to the upper border of the fork tube.

The crossbar is the handlebars? This measurement is with the fork compressed all the way?

I also read somewhere to drain and refill with 440ml and not measure the level.

 

[abbienormal]

Fork oil measurement is normally from the top of the fork tube, springs out, forks bottomed. I imagine the crossbar would be the upper triple clamp where the tubes would be flush with it. While I have the fork oil level tool from Motion Pro I did many forks using a plastic ruler graduated in mm just by dipping it in like a dipstick. If it was supposed to be 60mm then put it in till 80mm shows at the top of the tube. Pull it out and the oil level should be at 20mm. I also consider it easier off the bike as the tube will be vertical.
Your bottoming may be low oil level as now there is a greater volume of air when compressed and so less spring effect. Not positive as the kit may take more or less oil.
I guess you could try sucking the oil out but I'll bet you don't get it all. Any dirt will be left in the bottom of the forks. If you can remove the front tire pulling the forks is not much harder. That way you know you did it correctly. As they recommend 15wt I would get a good synthetic and change it out. Installing the kit in my Norge made a big difference in the front. I already had Ohlins on the rear.
Not sure if how they support the headlight on yours but maybe do one side at a time so the headlight stays put?

 

[My name is Jeff]

Scott if you use the idea I had with the tubing you will get most of the oil out of the forks.
There will only be a little bit of the old oil left in the forks and by using this method you don't have to remove the forks.
The best way to check oil level is to remove the forks from the bike but I wouldn't bother.
You will need a jack of some description so you can lift the front end off the ground remove fork caps remove spacers and springs lower the front of the bike all the way down shocks fully compressed suck old oil out then refill with 15w fork oil and fill till you have around 100mm air gap from top of fork tube I say around 100mm as you won't get a accurate measurement because the fork are not straight up and down.
Now lift bike till the front wheel is off the ground drop the springs in and spacers screw down the fork caps and adjust your sag.

 

[My name is Jeff]

Stradagene I'm using the Matris F15 cartridge kit. As you probably have found that with the standard shocks that come stock on these bikes you will get head shakes when hitting bumps or ruff sections of road on some corners that will scare the crap out of you if your going quick.
With the regulators and springs you won't have this problem as bad it does make a lot of difference plus you can adjust preloaded for setting your sag.
Now with the F15 kit you have rebound and compression settings as well as preload.
This kit is the best option it's so smooth over bumpy roads plus I will put it this way when you come around a corner and see a bad section of road you don't think to yourself crap and get all tense you just know the the suspension will soak up the bumps.
I am a lot more confident on the v7 with these shocks than my Speed Triple.
Also make sure you have good rear shocks.
Jeff

 

[GTM®]

Scott, so you didn't purchase from me, but you're here for support, got it. Reach out to whomever you bought it from. In short, you have air in the system.

 

[Scott Smith]

Update: Much better - Firm but better (heavier springs option) - so far the front feels more often planted to the pavement

This weekend I dropped the front wheel and forks legs. I followed the Matris instructions to the letter. Save yourself the headache. Drop the front suspension. Don't shy away from the task as being to difficult for a first timer. The reassurance that it is done correctly is worth the effort.

The emulators and springs were seated properly. Air in the system - Follow the Matris instructions on how to insure that air is not in the system. I replaced the fork oil with the recommended fork oil weight (15) and exact 60mm oil level. This total process took two hours.

 

[My name is Jeff]

Good work Scott! It's a pain to pull things down sometimes but at least your not having to guess what the problem might be.

 

[mechanicsavant]

Has anyone modified the forks by adding drain plugs? It seems this , if possible without damaging the structural integrity of the slider would make oil change & adjustment way easier. Just thinking !

 

[My name is Jeff]

Your better off just taking the forks off the bike and I will tell you why.
When I installed the F15 cartridge kit I found so much crap in the forks it was crazy it was like a heap of dirt of some description
Was left in there because the manufacturer couldn't be bothered cleaning the crap our before assembly.
Also with the forks pulled down you know for sure that the internals are clean.

 

[mechanicsavant]

No doubt about the klag in the forks. I would remove the forks when installing drain plugs to be sure do debris contaminated the internals. But once done changing fork oil would become an easy task , making tuning much easier. Just another thought, so far my16 V7ii has had 3suspensions! The first one was in the initial 500mi. Tight as a boars rectum, & in 30deg. Air temps fluids like molasses (I bought the bike 3/31/17 ) . It snowed first week of April ! A lot! @ about 6-800mi definite improvement noticed as all moving parts got to know their neighbors & play better together ,air temps creeping up too,even the wooden brakes are waking-up ,second suspension ! It now May trees are greening & I'm hardley using my heated gear ,yeah Now @ around 3k mi. Vastly improval in suspension , engine is much smoother w/better response after re-flash @ 600mi. Service,heck! Even the brakes are now a 2 1/2 finger affair!! This is "almost" the perfect dancing & light touring partner I'm looking for. H-B junion 30 hard bags , ctr. Stand ,rear rack &an old givi roadster 1/4 fairing & I'm almost there . I'll be fitting a pair of "Stelvio" hand guards soon as they land . Ahh "TOPO GIGO" what a happy fellow you are to carry me from rally to rally & beyond ! See ya around the camp fire (I'll be the guy w/big smile & adult beverage).

 

[Scott Smith]

Update- Subjective comments below
I'm just starting to feel the effects of the new suspension? My wrists are telling me that the ride is different after the Matris install. The suspension seems to have a sweet spot at 30mph. Below 30 the suspension does nothing. Above 50mph on same road the suspension "hops". I'm using the reflector bumps on the white lane markers to judge these responses. I have an 18 mile ride were I'm able to test several speeds on the same course. One theory is that I have is the new install seemed to give me more confidence creating more driving speed? They are definitely responding differently from the stock setup. This confidence has me consistently driving over 30mph on these same bumps which makes the whole ride more intense. Another theory is that the suspension is changing since the initial install and second fork drop install w/ fluid change. It's as if it's breaking in or coming out of tune? The ride today seemed to have zero suspension?? I bottomed out over somewhat large bumps or potholes. The ride almost feels no better then stock, if that's even possible? The 200lb. rider springs might be to stiff for my liking? Is the suspension coming out of tune? Is air gradually getting introduced creating a loss of travel? Could a portion of the factory forks that wasn't modified be effecting the overall performance (seals)? Maybe the suspension is not designed for my specific riding circumstances. Just venting out since I don't have experience in this area.

 

[Scott Smith]

Putting the bike back to the first point of my measured settings and starting over on tuning. I've now been adjusting by adding preload . It now has corrected 80% of my worries. My first mistake or trial was tuning the suspension by removing Preload from my start point setup. As I make small changes in the new direction the bike is responding better. The sweet spot has moved up to 40mph. This is probably were I'll keep it since this is also my daily riding traffic commute speed. Still have bumps w/ hops and hard dips but they are not as harsh as before.

 

[GTM®]

I'll have the compression and rebound adjustable Piggyback Res Ohlins for the V7 III models ONLY, on the online Store soon. Price is $1399/set.
If you'd like to pre-order, let me know direct email; Info at GuzziTech.com -- Delivery in ~6-8 weeks, possibly sooner, but that is with pre-orders only.

 

[socalrob]

I'll have the compression and rebound adjustable Piggyback Res Ohlins for the V7 III models ONLY, on the online Store soon. Price is $1399/set.
If you'd like to pre-order, let me know direct email.

I'm looking for something more plush on Socal freeways, yet still nice in canyons. I see the Ohlins are now cheaper than your top line Matris, which I understand can be a bit harsh anyway. Any recommendations?

 

[GTM®]

I see the Ohlins are now cheaper than your top line Matris, which I understand can be a bit harsh anyway. Any recommendations?

The Matris' are far from harsh, and quality wise are superior. Both of the Ohlins offerings I offer are very good for everything you'll ever ask of them.