• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

V9 Racer spy shot

I hope you don't take it for a bitter argument, I'm just discussing here and I may be wrong, I'm no expert by no means. But I still tend to disagree somewhat, if I get this correct, the emission regulations are severely interfering with the power/displacement/cooling ratio. In order to produce less waste, you need to burn less fuel so you need to burn leaner, leading to higher combustion temperatures. So it makes sense some old bikes may feel more crisp, when you open the throttle, they just shoot some serious juices into the chamber and push a jet stream of junk out of the pipe.

I don't know what do you mean exactly by "it does not need to be a CARC Guzzi to have modern power output" because there is a quite common understanding of how much torque can be put on the regular shaft. When the jacking effect kicks in (and I believe it increases proportionally to the second power or even exponentially), the bike is not suitable for a street legal machine with ABS and traction control. BMW also used a similar solution, one way or another an anti-jacking system will be needed (sorry if the term is incorrect, English is not my first language).

But, all that aside, if you want a more powerful bike then you just want it, surely somehow and for some certain price it would be possible to cater for that appetite. The more important aspect however is that there are customers (me included) to whom it does not even occur in their wildest dreams that they should look up performance numbers for bikes like Guzzi V7/V9. All I know is that it's a 850cc bike which is stuuuupid powerful in relative terms, because even when I rode all those 350 to 500 cc RE bullets and scooters, power and speed was never an issue, traffic and safety was.

But yeah, people are different, I can't say I understand it, but I have came to terms with the (for me) weird phenomenon that most of the motorcycle guys speak of their street bikes as if they raced an invisible competitor to work every day :nerd:
 
I do see jkristjan's point but am inclined to agree with GUZZIMOTO.
While I do love my V7 and enjoy riding it every mile for 4 yrs now I cant supress a desire for more palpable punch.
Unfortunately the V9 doesnt provide a lot more in this regard either, it seems.
I am not expecting them to squeeze 100 hp off this horse but
my hope is that the forthcoming V9 Racer will address the general demand for increased power and we ll see an improved engine/gear ratios with perhaps a still moderate 60-70ish hp and 70 Nm, or so?
Am I dreaming with open eyes?
 
Coozy debate this, not fuel for a flamewar, so I just give my support to jkristjan. I tend to agree in almost everything
you say.

This urge for more HP has been present on almost every fanbased brand/model site I,v been a member of.
Ordinary guys badly needed more then the ~200 hp from the stock ZZR1400. The XT1200Z was in urgent need for
new headers, reflash and air filter to make it more "hooligan", quite bizzare for the models purpose imo. Thruxton 900 same story, more power needed for a good rider experience and so on..

and now the V9.

It,s almost an disease or at least a mental addiction. To just get it louder seems to calm some people down, creating an illusion of power, luckily that is easy done with pipes and reflash/pvc just (the V7 seems to gain lots better engine characteristics too, very nice!). I have battled this urge too, hopefully settled a bit with age.

I think Guzzi did a tremendous job to get the V9 through Euro4 keeping the bike air cooled and shaft driven still
making the bike to actually feel powerful enough (that balance between weight, handling and torque).

I'm not aware of any aircooled 700-900cc twins that passes Euro4 managing to achive ~70hp..?
If there is I would be happy to get knowledge of it .

If you are fine to just bypass the envoirement regulations, a whole new world open up, but Guzzi is not allowed to.

Greetings!
Daniel
 
s-flow,
to your point here are some recent 2 cylinders with Euro 4 from Intermot in Cologne:
Ducati Scrambler = 800 ccm, Euro 4, 75 hp,
Kawa Ninja 650: 68 hp
Suzi SV650 76 hp,
BMW F800: 90 PS
 
To each their own.
Me personally I like power. I think even my '87 Lario has more power then that.
And that is my slowest bike.
It is sad to see the dyno sheet showing the Guzzi along with other retro bikes and while the others are all in the same power range the Guzzi is way below the others.
A better motor woith more power would be nice.

I hope you're not talking about the Dyno sheet I posted in this thread, since the 850cc 2V air-cooled, pushrod Guzzi is shown against one 1200cc air-cooled pushrod motor and two 1100-1200cc OHC, 4V, water-cooled motors.

If you put the V9 against things like the Triumph Street Twin, Harley Street, etc. it will be middle of the pack, and hell they're WATER-COOLED!

Mentally insert the V9 data instead of the V7II data here:

2016-Moto-Guzzi-V7-II-vs-Harley-Davidson-Street-750-vs-Triumph-Street-Twin-dyno-hp-torque-547x389.jpg


But hell, the last bike I sold was a 100 rwhp Buell. My V7 Stone is hands down the slowest bike in my fleet and it might be hands down my favorite too. Not everything is about power.
 
Last edited:
Well, Guzzi has decided to make fully air-cooled mechanically-valved twin with shaft drive in the entry level price range. Now if you didn't already, look up Euro 4 emission standard and see what it takes to meet it. If I remember correctly, there is one additional requirement in Euro 4 - the endurance test - they have to show their engines meet the standard after 20000km. So it's not that easy, from what I've read, the new 853cc is pushing the limits. More power would mean changes like wet clutch (to radically increase oil volume) and oil cooler at best, but probably even water cooling. Then it would need CARC but because that does not fit into the V7/V9 price range, it would need chain or belt and there you have it - it would not be a Guzzi any more.

Actually I think the main reason is in the CARC. Shaft drive bikes divide into two, CARC and no CARC and there will always be a range of less powerful non-CARC bikes. It's not just about the engine, a more powerful shaft drive machine would have entirely different frame and drive train and because there are bikes like that in existence already, the question becomes: Should they drop the V7/V9 line?

FYI - CARC is dead. Well, they might come up with a new powertrain and resurrect it, but they are not building the 1200cc 4V air-cooled CARC bikes currently and haven't been for some time.
 
s-flow,
to your point here are some recent 2 cylinders with Euro 4 from Intermot in Cologne:
Ducati Scrambler = 800 ccm, Euro 4, 75 hp,
Kawa Ninja 650: 68 hp
Suzi SV650 76 hp,
BMW F800: 90 PS

But correct if I'm wrong, at a glance only the Ducati Scrambler is air-cooled.

And I think our M696 is a great bike, but it's NOT a V7 and I chose my V7 9 out of 10 times I walk out into the garage within arms reach of both sets of keys.
 
s-flow,
to your point here are some recent 2 cylinders with Euro 4 from Intermot in Cologne:
Ducati Scrambler = 800 ccm, Euro 4, 75 hp,
Kawa Ninja 650: 68 hp
Suzi SV650 76 hp,
BMW F800: 90 PS

Wikipedia states Ducati is 67 hp, it has a massive oil cooler and desmodromic valves. The rest are liquid-cooled, aren't they? I wish it was easy to throw some genius engineer at it and build powerful clean-burning air-cooled engines, but from what I've learned it's not going to happen. And I for one don't want no friggin fan blowing between my legs and coolant leaking from my bike when it gets older.

Though I will have to accept it anyway because what was it, 2020 perhaps, when Euro5 becomes effective. That will be the definite end of air-cooled machines and motorcycle engines and exhaust systems will be just miniature versions of their car counterparts.
 
My V7 Stone is hands down the slowest bike in my fleet and it might be hands down my favorite too. Not everything is about power.

RIGHT ON KEV!!!
My Mille GT is the slowest of my ponies yet almost every Sunday or Monday when I don't work or the wife is not riding with me I'm on the Mille. I love my Griso & the Jackal is a great bike but the Mille really has my heart. There are times I wish she had a bit more grunt coming out of a curve.
 
s-flow,
to your point here are some recent 2 cylinders with Euro 4 from Intermot in Cologne:
Ducati Scrambler = 800 ccm, Euro 4, 75 hp,
Kawa Ninja 650: 68 hp
Suzi SV650 76 hp,
BMW F800: 90 PS

The list contains none of what I asked for...

Ducati Scrambler fails Euro4 and will not be sold in the current state in the future, the small (399cc) Scrambler Sixty2 is Euro4 though making 41 hp.

The rest are all liquid cooled.

I'd love to see it is possible to reach a higher power output without adding bulky cooling solutions but as for now
I think Euro4 is a major "problem".

Greetings,
Daniel
 
RIGHT ON KEV!!!
My Mille GT is the slowest of my ponies yet almost every Sunday or Monday when I don't work or the wife is not riding with me I'm on the Mille. I love my Griso & the Jackal is a great bike but the Mille really has my heart. There are times I wish she had a bit more grunt coming out of a curve.

Current Bikes: 2013 Griso SE 12V

Current Bikes: 2013 Griso SE 12V?
Do you mean 8V ???
 
I'd like to see a dyno sheet on a V9 with cam/flash/exhaust redone "off highway use". I bet it would have 10-15 hp more. What I appreciate is how tough Euro 4 is for air cooled engines. Given all that Guzzi did very nicely with the V9 IMO.
 
I'd like to see a dyno sheet on a V9 with cam/flash/exhaust redone "off highway use". I bet it would have 10-15 hp more.
Not from a small block. They can only achieve 5-10% gains max with most basic mods. My V7 III 820cc Racer is in the upper 50’s from 49 stock. Stock cam is very good unless you want a Bonneville motor, so they really have maximized the capability as it sits. My 820-4V motor is close to 60 (and is currently for sale).
 
Not from a small block. They can only achieve 5-10% gains max with most basic mods. My V7 III 820cc Racer is in the upper 50’s from 49 stock. Stock cam is very good unless you want a Bonneville motor, so they really have maximized the capability as it sits. My 820-4V motor is close to 60 (and is currently for sale).

That's interesting, I'm even more impressed with the Guzzi engineers and what they did with the V9. It certainly feels more powerful than the specs would suggest.
 
This is my own take and personal feel...

V9 Tank as a racer makes sense with it is slim, racy and pointy...fits the line well and makes it feel "fast"

V9 Tank as a Roamer, I find it is just too small to justify the beefiness of the engine...makes it look too much of a 250 instead of 850....

V9 Tank as a bobber...actually NOW the tank is a tad too pointy & long as a bobber LOL...bobber feel is more of a short stubby naked feel
 
Back
Top