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Valve Clearance for Roller Tappets

Discussion in 'Stelvio Chat & Tech' started by canuck1969, Feb 13, 2016.

  1. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Well, my dealer managed to procure a Kit A for my 2012 NTX. Tappets were a bit warn and cams were ok for now but it would have been inevitable. Not bad for 50K KM.

    What is the official valve clearance spec for the roller tappet bikes (modified by kit or stock from factory). What is actually marked on the new bikes that have rollers from the factory. Is it still 4 and 6 thou (0.10 and 0.15 mm) or have they officially increased it to 6 and 8 thou (0.15 and 0.20 mm). I am sure both will be fine but what is the official marking on a factory roller equipped bike.
     
  2. Mark111

    Mark111 Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Officially rollers are 6 and 8 thou, however many I know including my bike are being run at 4 and 6 without any problems.
    You will find that when these engines warm up the clearances actually open up roughly around 3 to 4 thou not close up like most engines.
    At 4 and 6 thou it will be a little bit quieter and should run without any issues, off course if you want to go factory use 6 and 8.
     
  3. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Is 6 and 8 what is written under your seat on the spec tag.
     
  4. AlanNZ

    AlanNZ Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    I set to a tight .006/.008. My dealer recommended this. Service manual says 4 and 6. Handbook with my bike says .006/.008".
    Regards
    Alan NZ
     
  5. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Thanks Alan.

    Service manual actually says 4 and 6 and 6 and 8 depending on where you look. They haven't updated the service manual since the MY11 but glad your handbook says 6 and 8.
     
  6. AlanNZ

    AlanNZ Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    Hmmmm. I just went through my manual from cover to cover to double check and I couldn't find any valve clearances - so I think my initial confusion was the two sets of figures in the service manual? My dealer recommended a "tight" 6/8 and that's what I have been setting to. I couldn't find a spec plate under my seat. So until I'm convinced otherwise, I'll stick to my current settings.
    Alan NZ
     
  7. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    No problem Alan. Guess the confusion still continues. I too always went with 6 & 8 but was curious what the roller bikes from the factory were labeled with. It would be on the seat pan. Think it was on the back section of the seat. Next time I am at the dealer I'll pull a seat off and take a look.

    Thanks
     
  8. mrcanns

    mrcanns Cruisin' Guzzisti

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    It might just be my roller conversion as it was one of the very first done but I have always thought my bike noisy any way when I checked mine at tdc the follower was already over the ramp and starting to close the gap using a dial gauge I found the point where the gap is largest and I set them at this point to 4 and 6. If you check them hot they open up alot and if you set them hot they will hold the valves open at that settings, so don't go there. Just thought I'd try for curiosity sake
     
  9. mick2

    mick2 Just got it firing!

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    Just had rollers and cam kit from guzzi installed in my 09, 26K on the bike, After it warmed up, the right head is ticking loader than before.
    Stopped back in at the dealer, They told me they will reset the gap. I asked, What is the gap?, so I could do it myself. He said 4 and 6, Europe is 6 and 8.
     
  10. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    What Guzzi calls the world spec has always been 6 and 8. I was at the dealers the other day and pulled the seat off a 2015 Stelvio and the sticker still say 4 and 6.

    Just finished installing my new rollers and that is what I have set them to. Very quiet running. Sounds like they set your right one incorrectly or did not tighten them down. Should be no reason it is ticking that loud with new cam box, cams and rollers without them missing something.
     
  11. Paolo La Vita

    Paolo La Vita Just got it firing!

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    For what it's worth, my 2013 Stelvio with roller tappets has 4 and 6 thou marked on a sticker beneath the seat.

    Still breaking my bike in so I haven't confirmed what my bike is set at.

    All I know is that it runs smooth and is surprising quiet.

    This leads me to believe it is set on the tighter 4 and 6 versus 6 and 8.

    I'll probably set it to 6 and 8 on it's first 1500 km service.
     
  12. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    Why....4 and 6 is perfectly fine for rollers. That is the spec.............
     
  13. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Founder!

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    Read your first post in this thread. I too question the 6 and 8 for rollers. A service agent I know says that 4 and 6 is good for the roller bikes. As to the sticker under the seat, not sure I trust those either. A singe manual on a Guzzi can have conflicting specifications.
     
  14. Paolo La Vita

    Paolo La Vita Just got it firing!

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    There is a lot of conflicting information out there on the internet and conflicting information from Guzzi's own materials (including the sticker under the seat).

    I recall seeing different specifications for the A5 and A8 motors and maybe this is where there is some confusion.

    I would assume with rollers the smaller 4 and 6 thou would be correct and it's under the seat on my bike. The looser 6 and 8 would be noisier.

    I'm going to take a close look when I do my first service. I assume the dealer/factory set them to 4 and 6 as the engine is quiet at idle.

    If 4 and 6 is sufficient there is no need to go looser,

    I once owned a 1979 SP1000 and it was .22 mm for both inlet and exhaust. That's bigger than the 8 thou for the exhaust on the high end of the specs.

    .10 and .15 mm -- I too now question the .15 and .20 (6 and 8).
     
  15. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    John, I was once a believer of 6 and 8 and ran my flat tappet bike at those specs. Occasionally I flipped back to 4 and 6 and no difference. From what I can recall, the world spec of 6 and 8 was adopted back at the beginning of the 8V to save on tappets and cams after the first 8V's in the Stelvio started having cam failures. Fast forward a few years now and obviously the 6&8 made no difference and tappets and cams still failed. The original MY11 manual had conflicting information. The spec was still 4 and 6, but the instruction for adjusting the valves said 6 and 8. I don't think they have ever updated the manual.

    My original question on this thread was what is the spec under the seat. That is still the official spec from the factory unless you are into conspiracy theories. It has been confirmed that the spec is 4 and 6 with rollers. Ask a dealer, Piaggio, the self proclaimed Guzzi Gurus and you will still get conflicting numbers. That just tells me stick with what the factory specs. And I am good with that,

    Either way, both are fine. No harm or obvious benefits from either one other than the noise. Just depends on who you want to believe. Clearance will get bigger, not smaller like shim and buckets. 4 and 6 buys you a little more time.
     
  16. john zibell

    john zibell Moderator Staff Member GT Founder!

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    Good points. I've been sticking with 4 and 6, but all this conflicting information from Moto Guzzi is not good. It makes it difficult to believe any information from them. My question, if they don't correct their manuals, do you really believe they update the stickers under the seat or just use then until they run out?
     
  17. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    I am of the belief that the sticker is the correct spec. If a manufacture actually put a wrong spec physically on a piece of equipment that would open them up to law suits if they caused damage or injury. I have to look but those stickers are usually date coded some how.

    i am sure somewhere in the manual there is some legal line that says they are not responsible for incorrect information in the manual. This is not the only error. There are many and their get out of jail card is usually language that the work needs to be done by a qualified individual who SHOULD HAVE access to the correct information. Of course that is not always the story.
     
  18. AlanNZ

    AlanNZ Cruisin' Guzzisti GT Contributor

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    It would be nice to get some factory confirmation of this issue. My dealer said a tight 6 and 8. I think I'll set mine to 5 and 7 in future until someone can come up with a definitive answer. Mine are getting a bit noisy - but I was told a noisy Tappet is a happy Tappet.
     
  19. Ray.

    Ray. Just got it firing! GT Site Contributor!

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    Hi, just fitting a new exhaust cam shaft. Where under the seat are the measurements? Also does anyone know the torque setting for the four nuts and two Allen bolts that fix the shafts in place?
     
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  20. canuck1969

    canuck1969 GT Reference GT Contributor

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    The spec should on a sticker on the bottom side of the seat. That being said, it will most likely be 4 and 6 thou and you will be fine with that for either flat or roller tappets.

    For the bolts, assuming you are asking about #6 in this diagram

    upload_2017-3-27_15-3-11.png
     
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