V7 Charging issues / Dead battery -- PLEASE READ

[Kev M]

Do we know who makes the battery for the V7, and have we confirmed that it IS an AGM?

I'm under the impression that AGM batteries are a little more sturdy than traditional lead acids with regards to charge rate.

The first reference I find is in the FAQ page for Optima:

http://www.optimabatteries.com/en-us/support/faqs

See CHARGING -

Voltage measurements of the battery when the engine is running are the output of your alternator. This measurement should be about 13.3-15.0 volts, which may differ due to temperature. At average operating temperatures of 50° to 80°F, your alternator output voltage should be about 14 volts to 14.8 volts.

Also:

For regular charging we recommend a maximum of 10-amps, 13.8-15.0 volts. For float charging, we recommend 1 amp maximum, 13.2-13.8 volts.

In contrast this website seems to favor the 14.4V limit for which you are aiming:

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

This website talks about battery charge rates, and shows rates up to 14.9 for fast charging AGMs.

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Datasheet-GEL-and-AGM-Batteries-EN.pdf


Here's a question. Does the circuitry in this regulator not adjust to system load and battery charge need? I.E. if the battery is discharged it's going to regulate the charge rate on the higher side until the battery is properly charged AND/OR load drops meaning it can shunt more power to ground and lower the charge rate more toward 13 volts.

I.E. if people are starting their bikes (maybe some that haven't been ridden in weeks or longer over winter) and immediately putting a DVOM across the battery terminals SHOULDN'T they be seeing a high charge rate? Potentially up to 15 volts (not over)? If those same people went for a 30 minute ride and THEN connected the DVOM might they see something closer to 13?

 

[pokeyjoe]

Welcome, and I would say see if you can identify any battery manufacturer that is OK with anything over 14.4 volts and post them here. I might do the same to Marelli for the ECU and a few of the sensor manufacturers myself. I would still consider 15v at any time too high IMO. Based on the repairs I've done, it aligns with this long-time standing knowledge.

I went to Yuasa's website and they specifically listed a range of 13v - 14.5v for charging. Some of these batteries are obviously taking a lot of abuse and are still working. Or ticking. Who knows what will happen or when.

 

[drlapo]

Before I tested my V7 I had the battery on a ctek charger overnight in the house
It measured12.9 volts without load after one half hour
I then installed it and ran the test
I got15.45 volts at the battery at idle and at 3000rpm
My bike has a defective voltage regulator
The battery can be easily replaced
I'm concerned about the overvoltage affect on the cam sensor and ECU
I will replace the VR soon when I have the tank off to replace the swollen plastic fuel filter

 

[elkgrichard]

I went to Yuasa's website and they specifically listed a range of 13v - 14.5v for charging. Some of these batteries are obviously taking a lot of abuse and are still working. Or ticking. Who knows what will happen or when.

Good information on the charging voltage, so we at least know this higher voltage is not designed into the systems.

I'm going to call my shop and see if they looked at my bike and figured anything out. I'll keep this status posted on here.

 

[GTM®]

Here's a question. Does the circuitry in this regulator not adjust to system load and battery charge need?

No it does not, it is a very crude resistor style VR. Stock battery is a Yuasa AGM, per...

I went to Yuasa's website and they specifically listed a range of 13v - 14.5v for charging. Some of these batteries are obviously taking a lot of abuse and are still working

Thanks John, confirms what I was suspecting.

 

[elkgrichard]

Shop called me and they ordered a new VR for the bike. They also checked 3 other V7 bikes regulators to see if this is a wide spread issue. They told me those other 3 bikes checked out normal with none charging over 14 volts.

So how wide spread not clear or at least not a wide spread issue according to this shop.

Reading this and another forum we have a few bikes with high voltage, something is not right to me about this.

Tod, let me know when you have something to replace this turd with.

 

[GTM®]

Are the other V7's all '13-15 models?

Tod, let me know when you have something to replace this turd with.

Will do, should have something shortly. Picking up the VR's tomorrow, will need to order in the factory harness side plugs. I'll post again soon with updates.

 

[Vagrant]

I sent a pic of mine (2015) at 17.79 at 3000 today. he said the 2015 and 16 are the same part #. is going to check one on the floor and if ok strip it off and over night it to me.

 

[pokeyjoe]

I sent a pic of mine (2015) at 17.79 at 3000 today. he said the 2015 and 16 are the same part #. is going to check one on the floor and if ok strip it off and over night it to me.

Great service!

 

[GTM®]

he said the 2015 and 16 are the same part #.

It is, however newer batch versions from Guzzi have been decent for stock to stock. That said, I'm going to put the MOSFET versions on all of mine and any I come in contact with.

 

[GerryP]

It is, however newer batch versions from Guzzi have been decent for stock to stock. That said, I'm going to put the MOSFET versions on all of mine and any I come in contact with.

I remember when I had my 955i Sprint ST that the VR/RR's were also a problem with 2002 + Sprints.

The MOSFET was also the recommended upgrade along with relocation if possible.

Fortunately for me my 2001 still had the alternator.

Currently my V7 is in winter storage so I'll have to get it checked out.

Gerry

 

[elkgrichard]

They told me two weeks maybe for my new VR. Hope it's a normal one. Bike remains in the shop for all that time. Lucky I've got my 2007 Triumph to ride.

 

[sturgeon]

I just checked my 2014 V7S (with a Centurian), and it shows 12.1V when the bike isn't running (as one would expect), and 15.3V at idle and also at 3,000 rpm. Which would seem to put it into the bad category. I've emailed my dealer and I'll post anything I find out from him here.

Last few times I had it out back in late fall (freezing rain ice storm here today) I noticed that it would occasionally not return to idle at a stop, but rev at maybe 2,500 or so. I could prevent that by leaving the clutch engaged when coming to a stop until the revs dropped down close to normal idle speed. And it didn't happen consistently, but often enough that it was noticeable. My question is, is the over-charging problem possibly related to this non-idle issue I've been seeing?

 

[GTM®]

My question is, is the over-charging problem possibly related to this non-idle issue I've been seeing?

I certainly would replace the VR, and 12.1v is low (perhaps a sign of battery abuse and early failure - I'd charge it fully and load test it). Idle is controlled by an onboard ECU "stepper motor" circuit - so not related, no. The MIU ECU download (for info) is available under the Downloads tab above.

 

[Kev M]

Certainly it sounds like a lot of units are testing out of the range that even MG seems to claim is acceptable. I absolutely agree anyone seeing > 15 Volts should replace the VR. For sure that's what I'll do if mine tests that way.

But out of curiosity because I'm still chasing the reasoning behind the Guzzi specs and what we should consider "normal":

I went to Yuasa's website and they specifically listed a range of 13v - 14.5v for charging. Some of these batteries are obviously taking a lot of abuse and are still working. Or ticking. Who knows what will happen or when.

Where'd you find that?

In their 2014 TechManual PDF the specifically say:

When considering upgrading to an AGM battery that was not original equipment on a vehicle, check to make sure the charging system has a regulated output between 14.0 and 14.8 volts.

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/literature.php

specifically here:
http://www.yuasabatteries.com/pdfs/TechManual_2014.pdf

 

[sturgeon]

I certainly would replace the VR, and 12.1v is low (perhaps a sign of battery abuse and early failure - I'd charge it fully and load test it). Idle is controlled by an onboard ECU "stepper motor" circuit - so not related, no. The MIU ECU download (for info) is available under the Downloads tab above.

I should add that with the battery fully charged and the bike off, a meter reads 13.05V, which is probably acceptable. All of my measurements were take at fairly cold ambient temps (around 3-4C), which probably also has an effect. I'll retry this in spring when temps are closer to 20C.

 

[drlapo]

Todd; have you seen any evidence of damage or degradation to the wiring?
I'm going to install a new VR and want to use the original wire harness instead of running a new and separate wire to the battery.
if I run a new wire to the battery and also reconnect the old harness the positive voltage should reach all the same places I'll just be doubling up the wires to the battery. necessary or overkill?
Jack at roadster cycles recommends running new wires to the battery and ground but I'm not seeing the benefit

 

[pokeyjoe]

Jack at roadster cycles recommends running new wires to the battery and ground but I'm not seeing the benefit

Jack is quoting the most efficient method. Fewer connectors, less loss, more voltage to the battery.

 

[GTM®]

Todd; have you seen any evidence of damage or degradation to the wiring?

I have not, but I haven't dug deep either. The replacements I've done put the voltage right where it's supped to be at the battery.
Anything 2013+ I personally wouldn't bother to do the bypass. If I have to dig deeper at some point, I'll try to have a look at any (visible) connection issues, or those reading this, if you have the time, please do.

 

[drlapo]

I see no visible evidence of damage to the conductors or insulation.
The connectors look good.
A simple resistance test with my ohm meter indicates no breaks or increased resistance
I don't think the wire harness was damaged
I did a diode check on the VR
I got 2 sets of numbers and 2 sets of 0
So that is correct
But the numbers are very far apart
One set is 201 and201
The other set is 569 and 564
I don't know what that means