V7,2013 oil in the airbox getting sucked into the intake

[francod123]

I get some oil into the airbox as well. Not sure if that is from too much oil in the sump from previous oil change or what. It's not a lot but I do get some. i've noticed some oil marks around the throttle body lip as well. hmmm...

 

[GuzziV65TT]

Picked up a 4000 mile V7 engine yesterday for my white v65tt project and the inlet manifolds were coated in a thick layer of dried on oil from the breather.

Pulled the heads / barrels and Pistons off and the amount of burnt on thick oily deposits is quite worrying. The barrels had a thick lip of oily carbon that I could peel off .


Deft won't be connecting the breather to the air box again.



started the grey v7tt yesterday morning to ride to work after doing a 150 mile blast with the wife on the back ( was very hot when parked ) and it shot a load of milky liquid and mayo out of he new breather. Wonder what that is doing to the oil and engine long term if you have the stock factory breather

 

[pokeyjoe]

and it shot a load of milky liquid and mayo out of he new breather. Wonder what that is doing to the oil and engine long term if you have the stock factory breather

Ewww. Do you have to carry a hanky now?

The interesting bit surrounding this issue is that some bikes don't seem to suffer at all. I have a V7 II and I can't figure out how the PCV system is supposed to work at all. The valve covers hoses run into the frame tube, a line runs from there to the intake box for vacuum and another from the bottom of the tube to drain accumulated oil. There is then a hose with a check valve that runs from the bottom of the airbox to the sump for oil return. Everything connects to the airbox. How does fresh air ever enter the loop? Are they just relying on crankcase pressure?

 

[elkgrichard]

I had that breather system disconnected, and was getting an engine knock sound. Did some research and found out some of these breather systems depend on a certain amount of vacuum pressure to suck all of the unwanted vapor out of the engine. When you try and mount that system to the open air without vacuum pressure, waves build up inside the engine causing that knock. This happens with breather systems that extract from the heads as with this engine. That lower hose going into the crank is not a breather hose, that is an oil return hose, everything is vented into and out of the head vent lines, and it depends on vacuum pressure to operate and remove all of those fumes/pressures inside that motor.

I also noticed that milk getting spit out of those lines when I had it free aired. It can't be good long term for that motor, and I also wonder about build up inside that combustion chamber.... as mention along that lip above the pistons and other places. Damn if you do, damn if you don't with this frocking system they designed. I guess this vent system being used on many car engines these days.

You can't just simply by pass stuff anymore as the old days, one thing depends on the other thing, if something in that chain ain't right.... the whole ball of wax goes into melt down.

Things are almost best left alone, or so it appears.

 

[elkgrichard]

Ewww. Do you have to carry a hanky now?

The interesting bit surrounding this issue is that some bikes don't seem to suffer at all. I have a V7 II and I can't figure out how the PCV system is supposed to work at all. The valve covers hoses run into the frame tube, a line runs from there to the intake box for vacuum and another from the bottom of the tube to drain accumulated oil. There is then a hose with a check valve that runs from the bottom of the airbox to the sump for oil return. Everything connects to the airbox. How does fresh air ever enter the loop? Are they just relying on crankcase pressure?

I don't think fresh air ever enters that loop. The airbox is providing suction or vacuum pressure to suck all the pressure waves out of the motor. All of those vapors end up inside the airbox and get sucked into the intake along with oil and water it can suck up from the bottom of the airbox and out of the motor. So even as the oil heats up inside the motor and burns off moisture.... that water vapor end up inside the combustion chamber. This same system is used in many cars these days. That is why short trips are not very good with this design. Always make sure you get things up to temperature before you turn that motor off. Otherwise you will leave that milk inside the injectors and combustion chambers.

These bikes are going to have long term issues down the road because of this breather system. Could depend on climate. California folks probably won't have as much to be concern about. East coast and the UK, all bets are off. I would not be taking short trips in those climates.

 

[GTM®]

having seen the state of the manifolds from my 600 mile V7 Stone engine that I have in my TT id be bypassing the breather system

So worthy of note for V7 owners, based on your picture and the bikes I've had apart, the ECU/Throttle Body is ONLY built to move air. It is noted that the ECU/TB must NEVER be cleaned/sprayed with any type of chemical as it will damage the circuit board of the ECU, as the air tracts around the throttle plate (mostly the on-board idle control Stepper Motor) are direct feed to the electronics. Really terrible design to begin with, and made far worse by this oil breather (bleed) system.

 

[GuzziV65TT]

Never had an knocking problems with the breather open to the air on my last few Guzzi's. Popped a borascope down the plug holes on my grey v7tt and both barrels are both full of buildup. Think I will have the heads off one eve and clean the build up out.

 

[oldlegs]

I drained the engine oil from my V7 11 after about 3,000 miles, the oil from the front drain plug looked normal but when I drained the rear plug it was milky and the last dribble was clear water, could this be connected to the posted breather problems. Steve.

 

[elkgrichard]

I drained the engine oil from my V7 11 after about 3,000 miles, the oil from the front drain plug looked normal but when I drained the rear plug it was milky and the last dribble was clear water, could this be connected to the posted breather problems. Steve.

That is more a winter time issue and not getting hot enough to burn off the water. Just take that sucker out for one hell of a long ride and get it up to good operating temps for a good while. Maybe some stop and go in town traffic would even help out.

On a side note the breather system will recycle some of that water back into the oil via that oil return line and also into the combustion chambers via the EFI system as it sucks wet air out of the airbox. It's a horrible design.

Not much we can do to change the breather system, I tried... and pressure built up inside the motor. It's dependent on a certain amount of vacuum pressure to clean pressure waves/fumes completely out of the motor.

You can find some good information on these head vent airbox systems on line and you find out fast this system depend on vacuum pressures to operate properly, they really can't be bypassed without causing other problems. Once you add vacuum you have a potential source recycling moisture back into the fuel feed systems.

 

[elkgrichard]

Never had an knocking problems with the breather open to the air on my last few Guzzi's. Popped a borascope down the plug holes on my grey v7tt and both barrels are both full of buildup. Think I will have the heads off one eve and clean the build up out.

Keep an eye on it. I end up with the engine knock, and when I researched this on line, I ran across information that this being a common problem with head vent systems that depend on vacuum to clean everything out of that motor, pressure waves build up inside the motor when vented to open air with no vacuum. If you don't get the knock at some point you are going to start blowing seals, head gaskets, etc.

It's all better left alone.

My 2007 Bonneville is still using the old style crank vent system that will feed into the airbox, but it's not dependent on vacuum pressure to clear things out of the motor. Those systems can be vented to open air without an issue. In fact that bike I removed the airbox and vented to open air without an issue. You can't do that with this V7, it will get you into trouble.

 

[GuzziV65TT]

I drained the engine oil from my V7 11 after about 3,000 miles, the oil from the front drain plug looked normal but when I drained the rear plug it was milky and the last dribble was clear water, could this be connected to the posted breather problems. Steve.

short runs in colder weather creates moisture in the engine and that buildup is the white liquid. Its quite surprising how much my carb fed v7 engine spits out the open breather.

 

[GuzziV65TT]

Keep an eye on it. I end up with the engine knock, and when I researched this on line, I ran across information that this being a common problem with head vent systems that depend on vacuum to clean everything out of that motor, pressure waves build up inside the motor when vented to open air with no vacuum. If you don't get the knock at some point you are going to start blowing seals, head gaskets, etc.

It's all better left alone.

My 2007 Bonneville is still using the old style crank vent system that will feed into the airbox, but it's not dependent on vacuum pressure to clear things out of the motor. Those systems can be vented to open air without an issue. In fact that bike I removed the airbox and vented to open air without an issue. You can't do that with this V7, it will get you into trouble.

the engine is basically a 750cc pump as the pistons go down they create a pressure in the sump that needs to be released and the engine pushes it out of where ever it can , in our case the rocker box vents. Never seen nocking noises on any of my guzzi's with open breathers. Did you just vent the two rocker box breathers to the atmosphere and plug everything else up?

Having seen the mess my V7TT engine spits out I wont be reconnecting mine up

 

[elkgrichard]

the engine is basically a 750cc pump as the pistons go down they create a pressure in the sump that needs to be released and the engine pushes it out of where ever it can , in our case the rocker box vents. Never seen nocking noises on any of my guzzi's with open breathers. Did you just vent the two rocker box breathers to the atmosphere and plug everything else up?

Having seen the mess my V7TT engine spits out I wont be reconnecting mine up

I'm with you on wanting to get that toxic corrosive mess out of my injection system and out of the combustion chambers so I did just what you did. I ran good for a fee miles and then I got this weird knock on hard throttle on. Did the research and learn about this being common with this type vent system. It depends on vacuum pressure to get the pressure out of the engine.

I had those two head vents Y'd to one line and ran it all the way out to the rear fender as with the old Triumph's. So it was a long run and maybe that created pressure build up in that line, just a guess on my part. I was reluctant to run it under the bike when I noticed the amount of junk it spit out of that hose. I was concern with the back tire. Could not believe the amount of moisture coming out of that breather hose. It was a milk shake back there. That is all going into the engine for crying out loud. One big corrosive mix that is also contaminating the entire EFI system.

I also T'd in that crankcase oil return line with the head vent lines and left that check valve in place. I then plugged the 3 holes into the airbox so they would not suck dirty air into the airbox.

What have you done with that crank case breather hose? Did you leave it hooked up to the airbox, maybe that is how I should have ran this thing.

Either way that knock scared the crap out of me along with what I read so I'm leaving this stupid thing alone. It is one stupid system for sure.

I run to open air with my vent system on my 2007 Triumph with no issue at all but that is a crank vent system not a head vent system.

Overall what I read was of concern because that information I read said that some of those head vent systems depend on vacuum to suck out all of the pressure waves. If you put your finger over one of those holes in the airbox you will find it's got one hell of a strong draw with vacuum on those vent lines from the heads. That was the convincing factor for me.

Keep an eye out for oil leaks, and listen for any knock under hard throttle.

I'm with you on never having had an issue like this venting to the air before. Crazy shit.

 

[GTM®]

For you aviation or parts guys, how about a simple PCV Air/Oil separator inline like the one shown below perhaps?

 

[elkgrichard]

That would work, what is the source for that sucker? That is probably how this system should have been set up to begin with.

 

[GTM®]

It's a Jegs(.com) 52205 or it's on Amazon as well. $48. Trying to see if I can find a cheaper version. Post if you find one.

 

[drlapo]

I checked the airbox on my 13 V7 today
The walls were lightly coated with an oil film and there was a very shallow puddle of oil in a corner
The throttle body venturi was damp with oil
I glued a piece of a UNI filter over the breather hole sort of like the pads in a car's air cleaner canister on the line from the pvc valve
I'll check it after a few hundred miles to see if it helps

 

[Moto_Max]

For you aviation or parts guys, how about a simple PCV Air/Oil separator inline like the one shown below perhaps?

http://www.magnumtuning.com/en/detail/hho-pcv-enhancer

From the first page in post #5

 

[francod123]

there are some nice billet ones out there too for about $80 or so. Read some reviews of the ones with plastic tubes that they were experiencing some cracking.

 

[elkgrichard]

I checked the airbox on my 13 V7 today
The walls were lightly coated with an oil film and there was a very shallow puddle of oil in a corner
The throttle body venturi was damp with oil
I glued a piece of a UNI filter over the breather hole sort of like the pads in a car's air cleaner canister on the line from the pvc valve
I'll check it after a few hundred miles to see if it helps

I'm not sure what you did. PICTURES PLEASE?