My conflict with final drive gear oil

[Loosy gussi]

The capacity called for in the book is 250cc. On page 51 same manual, under maintainance, it says to top up the gear oil to bottom of fill hole. Which one is right? I called a couple of the major dealers, two of them said bring it up to the bottom of the fill hole, another said put in the 250cc. . I measured the amount that came out to be 250cc. ..I poured in 400cc & it looks about right...I just don't want to overfill & blow a seal. Anyone know which is correct?

 

[john zibell]

The capacity called for in the book is 250cc. On page 51 same manual, under maintainance, it says to top up the gear oil to bottom of fill hole. Which one is right? I called a couple of the major dealers, two of them said bring it up to the bottom of the fill hole, another said put in the 250cc. . I measured the amount that came out to be 250cc. ..I poured in 400cc & it looks about right...I just don't want to overfill & blow a seal. Anyone know which is correct?

Looks like the technical writer copied from the wrong book. 250cc is the capacity of the Tonti bikes (T, T3 through California series). The CARC bikes hold 380cc. If she holds 400cc to the bottom of the level plug use that figure. I prefer filling to a specified cc quantity to filling to level plug. I've had oil come out the level plug, though it was full, but wasn't. Lost that rear drive (T). Now I always drain and fill to a cc measurement and never even pull the level plug.

 

[Loosy gussi]

Thanks, that helps alot. I guess I was concerned because only 250cc drained out , & this is how it came from the factory. All other differentials that I know of are full at bottom of the level plug. Thanks again, just wondering if all new 1400s have the right quantity from the factory because the bike is supposed to go 30,000 miles before this is changed !!!?

 

[Loosy gussi]

I did put in synthetic gl5. That OK?

 

[john zibell]

I did put in synthetic gl5. That OK?

Should be. Viscosity is more critical than type, but I do believe synthetics perform best.

 

[canuck1969]

I have not read the California manual, but if it is anything like the other later model 8V bikes, it will say to fill to the bottom of the hole with the bike level and with the rear wheel on the ground (ie. normal running mode). If you fill it on the side stand, or on the center stand (if there is one) you will not get the right amount in. As long as you do that, filling to the bottom of the thread plug will be fine.

Have never had oil come out of my 8V Carc, unless you try to check the oil level on the center stand on a properly filled Carc. I will then pour out the fill hole. I check it on the ground with a 2x4 under the side stand to bring the bike somewhat level.

 

[Loosy gussi]

Thank you John , & Canuck, for your quick reply and information, that sets my mind at ease, I don't want to replace seals over something this simple. I read somewhere on GuzziTech that overfilling could cause leaking. Because the rear wheel has to be off to access fill plug, I measured center of wheel to floor, then lowered my jack until swing arm was slightly below this measurement. The oil still looked to be in spec.

 

[canuck1969]

Was not aware of the rear wheel having to come off the California to check the carc oil, but to put yourself more at ease, confirm the 380 ml quoted earlier and educate myself further, I checked the service manual. Adds some more confusion, but somewhat confirms the quantity.

1. Hard to keep both wheels on the ground when one is not on the bike. Technically it is on the ground, just not attached to the bike.

2. The second highlight somewhat confirms the quantity. Says to use a container larger 400 cc (ml). As long as you fill it to the bottom of the thread using the method in the manual (except the wheel thing) you will be fine.

 

[Loosy gussi]

Thanks Canuck, I read exactly that page you Posted. The confusion lies in the fact that in that same manual, PAGE 11, the capacity called out was 250cc, and the amount drained out on first change was 250cc . ????? I can understand a typo error (capacity) but funny that it's the same amount I drained out.

 

[canuck1969]

I have seen funnier things in manuals. When u put the 400ml in was the bike in the same position as it is in the manual. On a jack, level, with rear swing arm all the way down. If so then you are doing it right as per the manual.

Perhaps someone else with a California can comment. Is weird that it only had 250 in it to start. Was it serviced at the dealer before u got it. Perhaps they put the incorrect value in it.?

 

[Loosy gussi]

Yes, on a jack, level, & lowered the jack to drop the axle hole lower than it would be with the wheel on , the shocks were fully extended. As far as I know this is how it came from the factory. The reason I used 400cc is because I confused the capacities. With the gearbox and was only adding 50cc at a time to not spill oiI. Perhaps oil should have been topped up during first dealer prep?

 

[canuck1969]

The dealer will not top up fluids on a PDI. Frankly, not sure what they actually do on a PDI. That is a topic in itself.

Not sure what to say on this. You are filling it up correctly as per the manual, which, although a different rear drive, is the same way I do it on my Stelvio. Have never measured since you never know if you got every last drop out. Perhaps someone else can comment on the actual value they have put in to confirm and set your mind at ease.

Real, real silly questions and I apologize in advance for asking it but...your are filling it through the fill hole and not the breather....correct??? You would not believe what some people have done so always ask the obvious questions.

 

[sir fred]

Thanks Canuck, I read exactly that page you Posted. The confusion lies in the fact that in that same manual, PAGE 11, the capacity called out was 250cc, and the amount drained out on first change was 250cc . ????? I can understand a typo error (capacity) but funny that it's the same amount I drained out.

To help keep matters confusing, I have just changed my differential oil. I measured how much came out also. It was 250 cc's. I let it drain overnight. In added 250cc's of GL4.

As for GL5, I read that it can be corrosive to "yellow metals" (bronze bushings). I don't know if there are any bronze parts in the diff.

 

[Loosy gussi]

Canuck, yes I did use the fill hole, did not unscrew the breather. Sir fred, I suspect that the factory goes by what it states in the shop manual, and installs 250cc (by the book) which leaves me wondering are all the 1400 cali's running around short of oil in the final drive for many miles or am I using too much. It's hard for me to beieve this final drive would not be topped up like all the other guzzi we have had over the years

 

[sir fred]

This is my first Guzzi and I am thoroughly enjoying it but I have /had two other shaft drive bikes.
As mentioned, I replaced the fluid with the same amount that was removed. My bike has 6300 miles today and it runs smooth and there is no gear whine. The manual states 15,26 cubic inches (250 ccs/ 8.45 oz.)
My Honda requires 5.2 oz. after draining. %
I am surprised that the CARC system would require so much more gear oil (400cc/ 13,52 oz.!)

It is quite a coincidence that two of us have the EXACT experience.
I put two hundred miles on it today. Runs great.

 

[Loosy gussi]

I must agree sir Fred 250cc came out of my bike also, the manual states 250cc. My owners handbook says 250cc, one of the dealershort that carries both bmw & guzzi told me to stay with spec. I drained the final drive again & measured out 250cc & placed tape where the oil came to .at the top of the tape in photo. I'll have to go with the book till I find out otherwise just too many things point to this #

 

[roadventure]

1. Hard to keep both wheels on the ground when one is not on the bike.

2. The second highlight somewhat confirms the quantity. Says to use a container larger 400 cc (ml). As long as you fill it to the bottom of the thread using the method in the manual (except the wheel thing) you will be fine.

I wonder who thought it was a good idea to require that the rear wheel be removed just to check or change the gear oil in the drive? I have not seen this on any other shaft drive bike.

 

[john zibell]

I wonder who thought it was a good idea to require that the rear wheel be removed just to check or change the gear oil in the drive? I have not seen this on any other shaft drive bike.

Engineers that never work on anything and just design.

 

[Loosy gussi]

Thanks you guys, I appreciate your feedback, I'm going to ride to laughlin, tomorrow, about 300mi. Each way. So just wanted bike to be as correct as possible. I figured I can't go wrong putting things back the way they were. But there are still a few discrepancies about these procedures. When I have more time I would like to get everything properly squared away. Only Piaggio knows the real answer

 

[sir fred]

OK..hopefully the last. I just talked to the mechanic at my Dealership. He said that the Piaggio site(of which he gets all his info from) states that a refill is 250cc's.
To avoid confusion, the transmission (in American terms) holds 430cc's.

I will stick with the 250cc's that I removed and replaced.

Ride safe..Love my first Guzzi!