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Strange Rattle from the Beast

PaulDavies

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Contributor
Joined
Aug 30, 2016
Messages
370
Location
Comox, BC, Canada
Ok - I know Guzzi's are known for rattles and making other "charismatic noises", but my 1400 Audace (with the euro 4 emissions stuff - if that's in any way relevant) has a strange rattle and I'm not sure if its a "feature" (as in - they all do that sir) or something that needs adjustment/looking at. I'm new to Guzzi's (this is my first) so have nothing to go on. It's not getting any worse, but now it's messed with my head so much that I'm listening for it - Sometimes I imagine it's there when it isn't !!!

I've posted a video here -

You can hear it sounds fine at idle (this was made just after returning from a ride) but near the end when the camera moves to the RHS/front of the bike (@ 50 secs) and I rev it to about 2400 rpm, you can hear a fairly loud, "hard edged" rattle/tapping at that rpm which is not present (nearly so much) at other revs and not at idle. Is this typical?

It also gets louder as the engine warms up but it's not that hot around here at the moment (low to mid 20's Celsius) so I doubt it's due to any kind of detonation/pinking. Some days it doesn't make the noise at all, or will start up after a ride and short stop. I can't drive around that rpm as obviously I have to go up and down the gears every time I stop. I can hear it most when my full face visor is up (for the cool air) as the sound seems to bounce off the visor directly to my ears implying it's pretty much under my face, e.g. cylinder heads, but closing my visor, I can hardly hear it at all (it's the same on my other helmet - both good full face Shoei's). I also use disposable ear plugs and I'm thinking of getting some custom ones made just because of this.

It sounds to me like it could be tappet rattle, but I've had the covers off now three times and checked the clearances. Got back wheel off the ground, long screw driver down the spark plug hole, roate wheel for TDC and make sure inlet and exhaust are both open and the clearances are "by the book" when stone cold. I've only done 5000 Km. I also use premium fuel (91 octane around here, sometimes 94). I also use the Motul 7100 10w60 oil

I've wrenched everything I can get to and it's all tight. I thought it might be exhaust heat shields as this is common, but I took them all off and went for a ride and it's no different. I've looked on the forums and can't see anything else that might explain it. Maybe they all just make that noise, but as I say some days it doesn't - more Guzzi character?.

Any suggestions?

One last thing, possibly unrelated, a few minutes into a new ride (between 5 and 10 mins) that involves stop-start traffic. I'm sitting at the lights and then there's a strange "whirring" noise starts up and the engine note changes and the revs drop slightly. I can't believe it's the oil fan, since the ride has just started and besides, I've heard the fan before and it didn't sound like that - any ideas what this might be?
 
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Exhaust pipes firmly in the exhaust ports? Perhaps a blown exhaust gasket?

That whirring noise has to be the fan. I was thinking perhaps the fly-by-wire servo, but that would be really hard to hear.
 
I just starting getting a simular noise on my Eldo. Comes and goes but usually when it's cold and goes away after a few miles and not all the time. Sounds like a rattle but everything is tight.
 
Exhaust pipes firmly in the exhaust ports? Perhaps a blown exhaust gasket?

That whirring noise has to be the fan. I was thinking perhaps the fly-by-wire servo, but that would be really hard to hear.

Dave - you might have nailed it. Got the wrench out again and yes, one of the nuts on the right hand exhaust port (as it comes out of the cylinder head) was loose. Stupidly I'd been focused on checking fasteners inside the head and from the exhaust tip back towards the engine, but side stepped that one for some dumb reason.

Took nearly 2 complete turns turn to torque it up. I've been for a ride straight after and there's none of that hard tapping noise at 2400 rpm anymore, just the regular steady background clatter that you expect from a Guzzi.

That rpm must have coincided with the resonance of the exhaust pipe which was just enough to open up a gap big enough to start a rattle at the mating surfaces.

I'm hoping that's the end of it (fingers crossed)

cheers
Paul
 
Dave - you might have nailed it. Got the wrench out again and yes, one of the nuts on the right hand exhaust port (as it comes out of the cylinder head) was loose. Stupidly I'd been focused on checking fasteners inside the head and from the exhaust tip back towards the engine, but side stepped that one for some dumb reason.

Took nearly 2 complete turns turn to torque it up. I've been for a ride straight after and there's none of that hard tapping noise at 2400 rpm anymore, just the regular steady background clatter that you expect from a Guzzi.

That rpm must have coincided with the resonance of the exhaust pipe which was just enough to open up a gap big enough to start a rattle at the mating surfaces.

I'm hoping that's the end of it (fingers crossed)

cheers
Paul
Ok - so replying to myself here (1st sign of madness?). Went for a long ride over the weekend and on the way back bike developed some more rattles. Turns out 2 of the 6 bolts holding both Audace silencers onto their "hangers" had fallen out and a 3rd one was loose. Just bought a box of fifty (for $13) M8x16mm hex head bolts which should last me a few more years. Makes me wonder guys, how often do you all check your nuts?
 
LOL! Each time I take a bath. (Couldn't resist)

Use a little Loctite Blue & don't worry about it anymore.
Both of the new Guzzi's I bought had various rattles but once tightened never came back.
 
Is the strange whirring noise the oil cooler fan?
Well I guess it has to be - I'm at a loss to think of anything else it could be either. One of the nice things about the MG 1400 is that it seems to run a lot cooler than my last bike, an FZ1, whose fan used to come at every set of lights and smother me in hot air. I test rode a VFR1200 before that whose fan seemed to be permanently on . The 1400's (oil) fan seemed to only come on after a long ride ending in rush hour traffic. That's why I was taken aback when it came on almost at the start of the ride. Maybe it was a glitch as I haven't noticed it since.
 
Ok - so replying to myself here (1st sign of madness?). Went for a long ride over the weekend and on the way back bike developed some more rattles. Turns out 2 of the 6 bolts holding both Audace silencers onto their "hangers" had fallen out and a 3rd one was loose. Just bought a box of fifty (for $13) M8x16mm hex head bolts which should last me a few more years. Makes me wonder guys, how often do you all check your nuts?

My Audace is the same year and mileage with the similar noize driving me crazy.


I retorque all heat shields and bolts #1#2 #3 #6


Checked valves - 2 times.

I'll appreciate any ideas.
 
When re-torquing the bolts on the exhaust , did you perchance move the LHS muffler clamp . I
recently did this only to find the side stand rubbing the clamp . Relocated and noise gone :) . Peter
 
Thanks Peter! I do not think so, but I'll double check.
Can you please check the noize on the video I uploaded, just to confirm that I'm not crazy and it's exist.:mad:
 
Thanks Peter! I do not think so, but I'll double check.
Can you please check the noize on the video I uploaded, just to confirm that I'm not crazy and it's exist.:mad:

Sounds just like mine, except maybe valve clearances a bit bigger/louder. I've done 30,000Km on mine now and it's no different and so far there have been no issues (there - that's fate well and truely tempted). I think it's just the nature of the beast, no water jacket to quieten things down and those big cylinder heads are right under your ears. I just ride with ear plugs (spongy ones you throw away).

I did notice when fitting Todds fuel kit that those narrow metal pipes down from the exhaust outlets (the ones clearly visible 16 seconds into your video, with the rubber hose and spring clip attached to them), do exacerbate the racket somewhat. They are part of the euro 4 emmission stuff and allow the secondary air pump - that large plastic coated lump of a thing directly beneath them, to inject air into the exhaust port to help with incomplete burn and are not on earlier bikes. I think Audace was first to have them in 2016. If you temporarily disconnect the rubber hose and fire it up, you'll know what I mean - they sound like you have a giant hole in your exhaust - which you do at that point, but they add the noise regardless.
 
Sounds just like mine, except maybe valve clearances a bit bigger/louder. I've done 30,000Km on mine now and it's no different and so far there have been no issues (there - that's fate well and truely tempted). I think it's just the nature of the beast, no water jacket to quieten things down and those big cylinder heads are right under your ears. I just ride with ear plugs (spongy ones you throw away).

Thanks! I already feel better)) It seems engine was a little quieter before.
It sounds like Singer of my Grandma.
Singer_sewing_machine_table.jpg



I did notice when fitting Todds fuel kit that those narrow metal pipes down from the exhaust outlets (the ones clearly visible 16 seconds into your video, with the rubber hose and spring clip attached to them), do exacerbate the racket somewhat. They are part of the euro 4 emmission stuff and allow the secondary air pump - that large plastic coated lump of a thing directly beneath them, to inject air into the exhaust port to help with incomplete burn and are not on earlier bikes. I think Audace was first to have them in 2016. If you temporarily disconnect the rubber hose and fire it up, you'll know what I mean - they sound like you have a giant hole in your exhaust - which you do at that point, but they add the noise regardless.

It was a plan. I found your old topic https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/euro-4-secondary-air-supply-pump.19574/#post-165891.
and was thinking to disconnect these tubes, just waiting for confirmation that somebody without fuel kit did this.

I'll try and will keep you posted.
 
IMG 20200930 132004

I decided to reduce the cost of the project to $0.0001 ))) and used heat shrinking tubes to plug steel tubes.
Please see pictures attached.

Results:
Noize: Not really improved.. It still sounds like sewing machine.

Throttle response: OMG. it definitely helps on low RPM. AFR is Rich. I hope it will not significantly damage
L/100 km / MPG.
 
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