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Head-scratcher - '21 HD Sportster S

my preference is for air-cooled bikes with two valves per cylinder... but just because I'm lazy and prefer to simplify my maintenance requirements as much as possible.

I certainly hope Guzzi finds a way forward, though, and I can't imagine that will be with air-cooled engines.
 
The next logical evolution for Moto Guzzi has actually been proven.

Think Motus MSTR.

Yes, Motus went bust because they spent everything developing their 90 degree, water cooled, 1650cc , 180hp flagship of a motor.

Piaggio would be foolish indeed not to learn from the Motus and Ducati’s Panigale Desmosedici Stradale V4 engine. I think they should buy the rights to the engine which they could acquire for cheap no doubt.

The future of Moto Guzzi’s competitiveness lies in water cooled, high-tolerance, high performance, multi-cylinder 90 degree engines that can easily meet the Euro 5 standards.

I for one would LOVE to see a Moto Guzzi power-plant based upon the Motus version.

Could you imagine a new Norge to compete with the BMW R1250RT, using a 90 degree V4 churning 180hp ?

It would be simply awesome and I would buy one in a second.
That motor with the drag pipes they installed on their streetfighter concept ascended me to another plane. I wasn't even impressed by the horsepower, it was the torque on that thing. jesus christ torque everywhere!
The baby block had so much potential. Too bad they had to close the doors.
 
I for one would LOVE to see a Moto Guzzi power-plant based upon the Motus version.

Could you imagine a new Norge to compete with the BMW R1250RT, using a 90 degree V4 churning 180hp ?

It would be simply awesome and I would buy one in a second.
OMG, I would be first in line for something like that. I got the chance to ride a Motus once a few years ago and WOW, what a machine.
 
I don’t mind the looks of the new Sportster but the 2 inches of travel is just crazy. H-D will have many different version off this platform and I would expect some kind of roadster like the Indian FTR.
 
It's not about horsepower however, if you have to build a water cooled motorcycle to meet Euro 5, why not make the leap into the v4 territory where you can have it all, power, torque, performance, reliability, quietness, and a direct link to your history? IDK. Just fun ideas really.
 
That new Sportster doesn't do anything for me at all in the looks department. I didn't see any negative comments in YouTube. It was all rave reviews. I I don't like the aesthetics of the new motor, no character to it.

I've always had a soft spot for Buells. Seeing that nakeds have been so popular lately I thought that might be a good avenue for HD to explore. But I guess their sales team knows more than I do.

I wonder if something like a Yamaha MT01 would be more popular today than when it first came out. I'd definitely find some more space in my garage if they did.
 

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My first Harley Davidson was a used 1981 Sportster from the end of the AMF era. I had no problems with it and it was a good introduction to riding larger motorcycles. A few years later I bought a 1985 FXST new and rode it to the ground. I took a few years off due to nagging health issues, sold the Softail and have just gotten back into riding. I bought a used 2016 Stone and am I’m glad I did. It’s much lighter and the power is fine for the riding I want to do. While the 2021 Sportster looks like a fine bike, I wonder if it’s really an entry level bike for someone moving up in bike size like my old Sportster was? Does Harley Davidson really have a basic entry level motorcycle for the newer rider now? And call me old fashioned, but I wonder if all of the plugs and adaptors for the riders electronics on the new Sportster are a step forward or just an unnecessary distraction for the rider who already has a lot to juggle? And if one of these parts fail, does this become a tech nightmare? I’m all for modern tech for safety and reliability and I appreciate fuel injection vs. the carburetor that was on my Softail). So I wish Harley Davidson all the best with the new Sportster and I’ll be curious how things are going in a couple of years with the company
 
'overpriced and underpowered' has been the criticism of HD for many years now, so I suppose they felt they had no choice but to chase performance. well, that and approval from ever stricter pollution regulation bodies.

I owned a succession of sport bikes between the ages of 17 and 30, culminating in a Hayabusa, and came to the same conclusion - anything over 80-90 hp is not just 'unnecessary', but actually harms the experience.

my buddy owns a VFR800, and when asked how much power it has, he answers 'it has infinite power, because I never use all of it'. I always think that's a pretty good answer, and is how I feel about my B11 too. if it made another 50hp I just wouldn't use another 1/8th of the throttle.

120hp, especially on a bike with that parachute seating position... useless for actually riding. but then most motorcycles are purchased for reasons sort of tangentially related to riding anyway.

anyways, I'm rambling, but tldr: yes, I agree.
Problem is, the public say they want one thing, then go buy the exact opposite.
Yamaha have had this happen twice in recent years (as an example) They asked the buying public what they wanted for a big inch cruiser/tourer, then produced the new Yamaha Venture. What's happened? The 'faithful' disliked it as it went away from the V4, the public? Buying HD/Indian etc.
The other problem is, they (anyone) can produce a bike that fits exactly what you describe 90bhp, good chassis, good riding position. Which Yamaha did in the early 2000's with the MT-01 (yamaha USA decided they were not going to import it), yet it would have slotted nicely between the XR1200 and the Buel in the marketplace.
I had one for 80,000+ and it was a great bike for back/secondary road riding. Big 1700cc Vtwin in a sporting chassis, huge torque. Test riders slammed it for running out of revs (5.5k redline) and it 'vibrated' too much. The average modern rider is so damned 'cosseted' by four cylinder bikes, superslick gearboxes, they actually do not understand or are unable to handle a bike that gives a visceral experience and how to 'surf torque curves' above chasing rev's.
Maybe it's an age thing? (realising your mortality) i still have a ZZR1100 (ZRX1100) I never ride it. I prefer comfort and enjoying the ride over the intense concentration (and really, missing the ride experience) required to ride fast.
 
That new Sportster doesn't do anything for me at all in the looks department. I didn't see any negative comments in YouTube. It was all rave reviews. I I don't like the aesthetics of the new motor, no character to it.

I've always had a soft spot for Buells. Seeing that nakeds have been so popular lately I thought that might be a good avenue for HD to explore. But I guess their sales team knows more than I do.

I wonder if something like a Yamaha MT01 would be more popular today than when it first came out. I'd definitely find some more space in my garage if they did.
I had an MT-01, they are great bikes in so many ways, monster torque (for the time) they handle pretty good, (however can tend to tuck in on tight R/bouts if you go in hard).
If I'm honest though, they were not the bike they should have been out of the factory (noise/emission restrictions). I had mine at stage 2, it freed up the motor and it pulled to the redline rather than started to 'run out' around 4.5-5k rpm. but it's an expensive exercise, requiring a replacement (yamaha) ECU. exhaust mufflers, airbox changes. The fuel tank is pitifully tiny 17ltr, and about 200-220km's range, (less when stage 2'd). But, oh man that torque coming out of bends, a mate with an R1 was shocked, he thought it was 'easy prey' and admitted he had to screw it on' to keep up out of bends. Open road/top end, obviously was no contest, but country rd's or A/B roads? I loved my time with one for sure and maybe if they did a new version with an MT version uprated 'liner 1900cc donk it it??
 
In reference to Buells , they were dropped because they were one recall after another with quality control
that was straight out of 60's English motorcycle industry . And yes I worked at HD dealerships for years while these
were being sold and kept on the showroom floor while yet another warranty recall was slowly attended to . They
were fun to ride,but ! Peter
 
Resurrecting an old thread:

I went to an HD dealer shopping with a friend yesterday. She found a nice 1200 Sportster which is now in her garage. 2016 with 2250 miles—how can that be? Anyway, I looked at the new liquid-cooled ones after sitting on the one she bought. What can I say? The new ones are heavy, expensive, and ugly—no thanks. I really could not believe how heavy and awkward the new one felt. I had looked at the Pan America before buying the V85TT. Ugly, heavy, liquid-cooled, and chain drive—no thanks.

I could see myself on a Sportster like she got for short rides if I wanted to add to my fleet.
 
I just read through this whole thread. I was almost laughing out loud but definitely chucking to myself. My how times and attitudes have changed. Horsepower, water cooling and others. The Mandello must have been a big surprise for some. I went to the Harley dealer shortly after the "new" Sportster came out. They didn't have one in stock but they did have one in the back waiting for service which they showed me. Waiting for service was a polite term, it had been wrecked waiting for parts and major restoration. My guess a squid lost it, maybe overrode the crappy suspension. I was surprised at how low it was, like an Indian Scout. More like a toy than a real motorcycle. I believe the Evolution Sportster is the best bike Harley has built excepting the rotten suspension. The Custom had a large tank making it a more practical motorcycle. I wish I had kept mine for just bopping around town.
kk
 
The entire thing is a lifestyle sale, no one buys a HD based on any logical factors. What they do they do very well, that's why people buy into it. Walking around a HD dealer you're being sold a lifestyle you never had but think you can get with $$$.

Having said that many motorcycle companies are guilty of this style marketing, but just build good bikes.

I bought my MG from a store that sold many brands, they didn't care what I was looking for as long as it was a new bike.
 
I wonder if they (HD) are attempting to appeal to the young, sportbike riders? They keep saying the 'traditional' HD riders are now ageing and the younger riders are not buying in the numbers. I almost bought an XR1200 a decade ago, but looked at it, a Buell and ended up with the Yamaha MT-01 (the bike that Yamaha US decided to NOT import, stupidly I believe). Fairly similar performance to the XR1200 but actually a much better bike. Have HD upped their game with the new sporty's ergo's?
I agree with you, age (65) ridden all my adult life as transport, so have raked up 7 figures. 100bhp is more than adequate, especially if it's accompanied by buckets of torque. (that MT-01 was 95bhp/110ft lbs) it pulled out of corners that even a friend with an R1 1000cc admitted he had to 'spank it' to keep up. Yes of course sweepers/open road he was gone!
I now have an 1100 California and have downsized the garage (retirement) and now have a nice little Suzuki VL800 (C50T) as an everday bike. The 50bhp/46ft lbs is actually quite adequate for solo riding. So with a 3.4 imp gallon tank, I get 280km to reserve..What you;d get out of that new HD sporty??
I have to admit (water cooled or not) that new Guzzi motor could just give us a 100bhp California, which would be Soooooo tempting in the Tonti frame..
Maybe we reach an 'age of mortality'? I know I have no real interest in 170mph plus any more, I sold my ZZR1100 a year ago with zero regret. In fact if I am truthful, unless you were on Autobahns, it was a bloody pointless bike. I had an FJ1200abs Yammy before it.. Admittedly the brakes/frame etc were superior as they should be as they were a decade newer design, but as a usable everyday bike? The FJ donk was a better motor. Kwaka motor of course was a rocket ship, but in top gear it 'produced power at 6k rpm... 150+kph on the dial. The FJ motor just pulled like a train in 5th from 50kph (30mph).
I think this is where we find the Guzzi is so damn good, it doesn't rev up fast, but produces so much useable torque.

I
 
I have to admit (water cooled or not) that new Guzzi motor could just give us a 100bhp California, which would be Soooooo tempting in the Tonti frame..
I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll delete this soon... See the link below. Tontis are long gone. Only my GTM custom frames are a modern version.

 
I concur with the original poster above as to HD selling quality/selection decline. As to the Posters comment on a graduated license I Understand yet disagree. I took a 34 year break from riding, got my DMV Permit, just bought a 2013 V7 and am practicing traveling about my development for now. I am taking the HD riding academy in Dec to review skills and waver for the DMV road test (I DETEST THE DMW ALONG WITH THE IRS..SAME DOLTS). I DID ride a FLH, Kaw H1 500, sporter, BSA 441 BUT again that was then. Freedom allows stupid people to do stupid life ending events which I have witnessed first hand, Experienced Pilot showing off flying low and slow over his business became 1 with the business from 500 feet, Duck hunter who never shot a firearm blew his foot off, a guy? (Couldn't tell from the road hamburger) that went into a turn during a pass into a Kenworth per the local police over 100mph...the Kenworth won. My point is this USE COMMON SENSE FOLKS, seems its lacking in many today.
 
My point is this USE COMMON SENSE FOLKS, seems its lacking in many today.
Very much so. You missed my point. If the machines kill enough people early on, the industry dies. The bikes you list are mere toys in todays world. Times have changed per your own words.
 
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