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E5 V85TT Running issues

GerryAZ

High Miler
GT di Razza Pura
Joined
May 24, 2021
Messages
538
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Below is a recap of a running issue I had with my bike accompanied with a CEL.

I could not find any wiring or vacuum hose issues so I tried clearing codes. I was able to read and clear error codes using the attached setup with a small Windows 10 computer that I always carry on out-of-town trips. The adapter cable and OBDII Bluetooth unit will be easy to carry with the computer.

Unfortunately the engine runs rough and backfires when started after clearing the codes and the code(s) along with CEL and red dash display return after maybe 30 seconds of rough running. Therefore, I will be calling my local dealer this week to schedule warranty repair. I am lucky that it happened in my driveway and not while riding off road or traveling.

Edited to add: I just updated the firmware in the OBDLink MX unit and OBDwiz software. I am now able to read freeze frame data, PID information (which appears to be real time, but hard to keep engine running long enough to be sure), and save complete diagnostics reports as well as reading/clearing the error codes. I purchased the OBDLink MX in 2013 and had never updated the firmware in the Bluetooth device or updated the Windows software. The MX unit is discontinued, but the present version is MX+ available from www.scantool.net (they also offer their LX model, but I have no experience with it).
 

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Time for an update: After studying the real time data that I could read with my Bluetooth OBDII adapter, I found that all of the sensors seemed to be working normally. The manifold absolute pressure was just a little less than atmospheric pressure so I took another careful look for air leaks. There were no disconnected or broken hoses, but with a bright LED flashlight (in subdued garage lighting) I noticed the rubber manifold was partially disconnected from the throttle body. At that point I decided to repair it myself rather than arranging transportation to the dealer. The two photos below show before and after. I marked the throttle body with a red Sharpie after getting the manifold properly connected so I can see at a glance if it starts to move again. The bike ran fine after getting it back together and clearing the codes one last time. I don't want to hijack this thread too much now, but could post photos and description of disassembly/reassembly that I found necessary to get the manifold reattached. Thank you to those who pointed out that the new bikes are OBDII compatible.

MG Throttle Body 1 MG Throttle Body 2
 
This thread was split from the UpMap thread. The error codes were P1600 and P1602. I am still waiting for the UpMap unit I ordered and will report back in that thread later. More information about the bike going into limp mode and equipment needed to read diagnostic trouble codes can be found in that thread. Also, there is a new thread started by Todd to discuss the OBDII interface for the newer bikes: OBDII Port Reader - E4/5 Red Diag Plug Guzzis.
 
It was definitely the issue. I have ridden at least 300 miles since putting it back together. I also recorded real time data while idling for my future reference. FWIW the local dealer told me they have only had a few cases of bikes going into limp mode and those were all related to 12V battery issues. The throttle body has a groove and the rubber manifold has a ridge that fits in that groove. I am suspicious that the manifold was never properly seated in the groove and it eventually came loose.
 
I'd still like to get to the bottom of my occasional misfire errors, but I've been giving some love and attention to the poor neglected Ducati as of late, so I'll probably get back to that later. I've heard rumblings that there may have been updated OEM maps released recently (not positive), so if so, I might experiment with re-flashing that, before reloading the aftermarket (UpMap) map. I still want to experiment with OEM map + V-twin Boost as well, but need to find the time to fiddle with it.

__Jason
 
I'd still like to get to the bottom of my occasional misfire errors, but I've been giving some love and attention to the poor neglected Ducati as of late, so I'll probably get back to that later. I've heard rumblings that there may have been updated OEM maps released recently (not positive), so if so, I might experiment with re-flashing that, before reloading the aftermarket (UpMap) map. I still want to experiment with OEM map + V-twin Boost as well, but need to find the time to fiddle with it.
Keep us updated if you do. I’ll warn you against “sensor offset” foolers as they were tech abandoned by Dynojet in the late 90s. I know they fit into the ‘everybody uses it’ category, however the newer ECUs are even more sensitive to these band aid devices.
 
Yep, understood. I don’t particularly like such devices, but I got one to have as a “Plan B” in case remapping became problematic. Despite various positive reviews, their promise still seems too good to be true with such a simplistic device.

__Jason
 
Yep, understood. I don’t particularly like such devices, but I got one to have as a “Plan B” in case remapping became problematic. Despite various positive reviews, their promise still seems too good to be true with such a simplistic device.

__Jason


If too good to be true, it isn't true.
 
I have one of those spoofers for my Stelvio from the Booster Plug guys in Denmark.

Used it for 2 weeks, very disappointed. It didn’t do what they claimed. It simply sends a fake air temperature to the ECU to change the fueling being delivered. Interesting idea but mediocre performance at best.

Got real and bought the PC-V and AT300 setup from Todd.

Bike is best running Stelvio in the world and never looked back for 10 years now.
 
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Thanks a lot for this post Gerry. Two days ago this happened to my 2021 E5 V85TT, after 16000km. Your post helped me to fix it.

When I restarted the engine after short ride, the noise was suddenly bad and the bike was immediately in limp mode, briefly showed "Urgent Service Alarm" or something like that, and the engine warning indicator went on. Engine backfired, gas didn't respond, but the idle was about 2000rpm, so limping worked rather well. Cheap supermarket ELM327 Bluetooth OBD2 reader showed error P1602, and was also able to clear it, as well as the engine warning indicator. Making the OBD2 to 6-pin motorcycle plug cable and study internet for P1602 error took me half day, to fix the problem didn't take much time.
I loosened the clamp from the slipped inlet rubber hose, but couldn't make the hose to move at first. Then removed the plastic covers from both sides (two screws each), and detached the aluminum inlets from cylinder heads (three screws each). Using them as levers it was rather easy to slip the rubber hose back, tighten the clamp, and return the detached parts.

Thank you :)
- Matti

IMG 20230923 153607 HDR IMG 20230923 160909 HDR
 
I am concerned that you may not have the rubber manifold fully seated on the aluminum throttle body extension. There is a groove in the aluminum and a molded ridge inside the rubber that should have been seated in the groove at the factory. If you did not get that ridge seated in the groove all the way around, it will probably work loose again over time.

Look carefully at your “after photo” compared to mine. It appears that there is more distance from the edge of the rubber to the lettering on the aluminum in your photo, indicating that the rubber part is not pushed as far onto the aluminum piece as mine.

I took the air cleaner box and throttle body out to allow access to clean the inside of the rubber manifold. I had to separate the extension from the throttle body to get the extension inserted into the rubber manifold with the ridge properly seated in the groove. The rubber manifold was then stretched a bit as I bolted the throttle body and air cleaner back together.

I am sorry you had to search for the P1602 error code. I had noted the definition of the error code in the UpMap thread before this discussion was split from it. I found the definition of P1602 in the service manual for the V85TT.
 
In the German "Guzzi Enduro Forum" several riders reported the problem that the screw on that hose clamp was not tight.
A clamping jaw clamp might fix this problem but it is hard to find one with these dimensions.
Maybe somebody here has an idea ...
 
The original worm gear screw clamp has remained tight since I repaired mine. As I noted previously, the rubber manifold was likely never fully seated on the aluminum throttle body extension. With the rubber section not fully seated, it would be hard to keep the clamp tight enough to avoid leakage.
 
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