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Breva head stem query

2Laner

2Laner

Cruisin' Guzzisti
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Messages
105
Location
Auburn, Illinois
08 Sport - Front end feels wonkie. Been noticing a slight vibration, lightness, kinda wobble in front end. Head stem bearings? Brake rotors have already been replaced. Love this machine, little over 34,000 miles, still desire to keep it in top form. Manuals(Breva 1100) refer to a special tool to properly adjust. Am I over my head here? Average backyard mechanic. Is bearing replacement advised and is this something a novice can accomplish? Should I explore other options for weird front end feedback? Time to rebuild or upgrade forks? Fork oil change with 10 weight oil, 480cc each leg about 32,000 miles. This is a 08 Sport with a fork assembly with no documentation that I have been able to find. Sometimes I really do wish for a close MG dealer. I do enjoy working on my own ride though. Thanks for any input. Why does this stuff pop at beginning of riding season?
 
If you have a center stand, put the bike on it. Try to move the lower fork legs for and aft. If you can, bearings need adjustment or possible replacement. A good upgrade is to replace the ball bearings with tapered roller bearings. Do you have a dealer nearby?
 
Thanks for the quick reply John. I have a hoist that I installed for maintenance. Will test A.S.A.P Thanks for the tip on tapered ball bearings. Dealer is about 100 miles away. Any specifics on tapered bearings , part # ? Where could I find correct part? I have always appreciated your advice and knowledge on this forum. Thanks again.
 
Not sure of the taper roller bearing size, I haven't done one yet. It was mentioned on the old forum, and if it made the move you may be able to find it with a search. If you have the metric measurements for the ball bearing, you should be able to use that to determine the taper roller bearing needed.
 
To go to tapered bearings you're going to have to pull the cups off the head and re-seat the new cups. I'd take the head set to a shop for that. When I do mine I have a close Ducati tuner that I'll probably take it to.

Harper's sells a Breva, Griso, Norge 06-07 Sport kit for about $ 50 (PART NUMBER: 221039). You might talk to them.

You might just want to inspect the races. Years ago when I did a lot of bicycle maintenance I would just replace the ball bearings & re-grease every 15,000 miles or so. The Campy races generally looked good. The only real difference I see between my Griso headset and a bicycle's headset is size and the bearings are caged.
 
I replaced my headset a couple of years ago. There's something on here about it if you have a search. It's easy enough to do if you can get acces to a press to push the bottom yolk off the steerer. Bearings are the same as some kawasaki models and fairly easy to get hold of.
 
If your steering is not notchy, it may be just a little loose. My Breva had a similar vagueness in steering as you are describing, and I decided to tighten the steering nut.

It was a few years ago, but I think I had to take the top yoke off to expose the nut. Mine appeared reasonably tight until I sprayed a little bit of WD-40 on it, and got 2-3 complete turns until it got tight again. No further problems.
 
First off, thanks for all the replies. Well no play in front end that I can detect. I hoisted front end of bike this morning. Was going to try to tighten steering nut but looking at Breva service manual they say to replace safety washer and it looks like you need a special tool to adjust. Don't want to tear it down only to discover I can't do the job. Do I need a special tool to tighten and do I need to order a safety washer 1st? How far down can I dis-assembly front end to take it to a service shop for bearing replacement? Looking at it, I should be able to take the stem base and associated parts into a dealer. Is that feasible?
 
2Laner said:
First off, thanks for all the replies. Well no play in front end that I can detect. I hoisted front end of bike this morning. Was going to try to tighten steering nut but looking at Breva service manual they say to replace safety washer and it looks like you need a special tool to adjust. Don't want to tear it down only to discover I can't do the job. Do I need a special tool to tighten and do I need to order a safety washer 1st? How far down can I dis-assembly front end to take it to a service shop for bearing replacement? Looking at it, I should be able to take the stem base and associated parts into a dealer. Is that feasible?
Click to expand...


If you don't have the tools to adjust, then you can't just disassemble to a point and have the dealer just replace the bearings. Just have your dealer do the complete job.
 
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Since I'm a hands - on guy I purchased the headset tool from Guzzitech and the special washer from AF1 Racing.

It wasn't that big a deal to grease the headset and a big difference in my 07 Griso's steering - much quicker.
 
2Laner said:
Do I need a special tool to tighten and do I need to order a safety washer 1st?
Click to expand...

Technically, yes. But it is a castellated ring nut held by a tabbed washer. If you carefully bend down the tab, and then tap the castellated ring nut with a drift and small hammer, you can adjust it without any special tools. Obviously, if you break the tab washer, then it will need replacing, but this is highly unlikely as long as you're careful.
 
kiwi dave said:
Technically, yes. But it is a castellated ring nut held by a tabbed washer. If you carefully bend down the tab, and then tap the castellated ring nut with a drift and small hammer, you can adjust it without any special tools. Obviously, if you break the tab washer, then it will need replacing, but this is highly unlikely as long as you're careful.
Click to expand...


The problem with that is that it you can't feel the amount of torque you apply and could easily over tighten or under tighten. BTW, the term for that nut is a gland nut. Castellated nuts are used on bolts, axles, etc. and a cotter pin is inserted to prevent the nut from loosening.
 
john zibell said:
The problem with that is that it you can't feel the amount of torque you apply and could easily over tighten or under tighten.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I knew I was asking for it. I was away from my home and array of tools when I had to perform this operation. Was lucky to have a friend's garage to suspend bits from the ceiling while I fixed my issue.
 
You folks are wonderful. Was going to search for "gland nut" tool (thanks John) and did not find it offered on Guzzitech. I was going to try and lubricate and adjust 1st, then order bearings (thanks again John) if that did not cure, I would then take to a shop to replace bearings as I don't feel my skills are up to the task. Any opinions on Hyper Pro Progressive shocks for the 1200 2V? Thinking about those and a rear shock offered by Guzzitech.
 
I used to work at a Honda shop. In some of their service manuals, VFR700 in particular, they had a way to tighten the steering bearings by pull. You made sure none of the cables were dragging. With the front wheel in the air you attach a pull scale. I use a digital fish scale, attached to the fork tube right at the upper triple clamp. Pulling straight forward the recommended force was 3 to 4 pounds before the forks turned. On Gold Wing 1200's this was THE best way to get the front end right. Our service rep told us that and I have used it on several bikes since but never a Guzzi so take this with the proverbial grain of salt. It allows you to tighten the nut with a spanner wrench. In many cases the shock adjusting tool works.
 
So reading on here about everybody saying Guzzi uses no grease and having just under 11,000 miles on my 2012 I figured while I was installing the Matris fork kit I would install tapered steering bearings. While I figured in my assorted tools I would have a spanner socket to fit the nut but no. Searching on Guzzitech I see none here either. So off I go on a spanner search. Is it considered 42mm?
Does anybody have a trick to remove the internal races? I have done this on many Hondas and there is normally a notch that allows me to get a bite and start it on it's way out. Nothing here and I can't seem to get a purchase on it anywhere to knock it out.
By the way, I am almost disappointed that I am going through all of this and the bearings were greased perfectly and look fine.
 
Try a blind hole puller. If that doesn't work, weld a bead on the race. That will shrink it and then you can get it out.
 
Bearings only looked fine until I decided to leave them in. I wiped the grease off and notice I could count the number of balls by looking at the marks in the races. I then decided they have to come out. I ordered a blind hole bearing puller. The way Guzzi makes the steering neck inside it is as small or smaller than the race ID with a short taper to the race. The blind bearing puller did not get much of grip on the race and on the third try I broke the new puller. I don't weld but I have a friend who does so I may try the bead trick as I have seen it work. Most likely I am about to get primitive on it and grind some slots with the Dremel to weaken it enough to get it to break or fall out. This is unbelievable for what should be a simple job.
 
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