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CARC Failures

Hi, this is my first post and unfortunately I'm the bearer of some bad news. My Stelvio's swing-arm failed catastrophically last weekend while on a trip through the Ceres Karoo in the Northen Cape in South Africa. Photo's here: http://1drv.ms/1MvnBO1

The incident took place on Friday the 9th of October 2015. The CARC swing-arm broke in half and damaged quite a few parts of the bike's rear (the rim and tyre is however still perfect). The front suspension saw the same road surface/conditions and nothing happened. I'm still at a loss of why the swing-arm simply broke like this (at that moment I thought the rear locked up for some weird reason, until the bike came to a standstill and I was faced with the horror and utter shock of a broken swing-arm). I actually said WTF aloud and then for a moment thought I was dreaming. Honestly, it was surreal. I managed to keep the bike upright during the break and didn't drop it because I was going slowly (about 40 kph, max 50 kph, I was in third gear) and the road conditions were flat. I've been riding bikes for 20+ years, so that probably also helps.

There is one other very similar case I found on this forum: wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=75525.0. Same year bike, similar mileage, was traveling at a similar speed, similar conditions, etc., from what I can learn from the post in any case.

I've been on much worse gravel roads, fully loaded with a pillion, with my old GS 1150 and never had issues like this, also on the weekend there were 5 other bikes that did the same route and their bikes didn't break, we were nowhere close to pushing the bikes to their limits nor abusing them. All my vehicles are in excellent condition, I look after my stuff (notice the duct tape on pillion grab bars and the little carrier behind the rear seat?, so that they don't get scratched when I strap my luggage on). The fact that we could recover the bike with a 2-wheel drive pick-up (without diff-lock) also says that the road conditions are normal for a gravel road.

It is my opinion that the tapped hole in the swing-arm acts as a stress raiser (stress concentration). There is no reinforcing or thickening of the aluminium casting where the tapped hole is, I find this surprising.

I'd therefore like to, or need to, warn other Stelvio/Griso/Norge riders of the potential of the swing-arm breaking like this! Please check underneath your bikes in the area of the tapped hole closest to the rear damper (there are two, used for clamps for the brake line and ABS sensor wire -- see photos below) to see if there are any cracks, you could potentially avoid this from happening to you. I was lucky because I was going slowly, but if this happens at speed and/or with a pillion and luggage on the back, people can get seriously injured or worse... Imagine hitting a pot-hole (which is MUCH worse than the shallow gravel dip I drove through) at 120 km/h on a public road with other cars, etc.

The Stelvio should be able to handle gravel roads and the dips and washouts that come with them without any issue. I'm hoping this is a case of bad aluminium casting.

I was originally going to claim from my insurance, but this is first and foremost a mechanical failure, and one that needs to be addressed and/or looked into. The swing-arm design might be fine for tarred road conditions, but with the extra weight of the Stelvio plus luggage and the more severe demands of gravel roads it might be pushing the design beyond it's limits. Of course I'm assuming a lot here, still, that tapped hole in a highly stressed area bothers me...

I'm returning the bike and swing-arm to the local agents in South Africa so that they can hopefully send the swing-arm to Italy for analysis. I'm hoping for a responsible response from Piaggio and I'm going to be seriously dissapointed if they claim it's abuse, because it's not.

Worst of all is the looks of pity I got from the guys who were on the trip with me, guys on BMWs, KTMs and one guy on a Honda. Not nice.

Safe riding.

Regards,
MotoZA
 
I've combined/merged/renamed this topic. MotoZA, very unfortunate outcome, but glad to hear you didn't get spit off and injured. I've heard of just one other in Canada. I would chalk it up to bad casting and luck.
Our friend Andrea of Stelvio2Stelvio.it went around the world on his, and literally abused the bike the entire time, and it is still being ridden to this day.
Every brand has similar failures, just do a Google search on each. BMW has had the most per below and countless others.
I would take it up with the importer first, then up to Piaggio as needed. Thanks for your post here.

Image

Image
 
Thanks.

Yes, Murphy was a pillion. I would never have bought the Stelvio if I didn't think it couldn't handle 'off-road' conditions, I know it's not an enduro bike and I don't use it in that way (I'm not brave enough), and I know about Andrea (stelvio2stelvio.it) - he's part of the reason I bought the Stelvio. I absolutely love the thing, my wife even started calling it my mistress :D.

Weird/selfish to admit, but a relief to see a BMW like that, makes me feel a bit better :blush:.

The point of posting this incident on the internet is not to have a go at Piaggio, and I hope it doesn't come across like that because it's not my intention at all, but it is to inform other riders, simple as that. Especially riders of 2nd hand bikes, because you may not know the bike's full history.
 
While the cause of your failure could have been from a design issue, like the location of the tapped hole, it could also have been from defect in manufacturing or abuse (especially if you bought it second hand). It is hard to say for sure.
But, since there have been very few reports of this happening, as compared to BMW where it is all to common, I would chalk it up to either a defect or abuse.
There are too many people out there riding them as hard or harder, and they don't seem to break like that.
I don't own a Stelvio, but My Griso has the same CARC unit on it and I have probably ridden my Griso in as harsh of conditions as most Stelvio owners. It has never failed.
Just my opinion.
 
I have had my 2012 on countless off road ventures, loaded up to capacity (and probably even more) and never had an issue. I have bottomed out bad enough for my teeth to hurt.

From what I can remember, the first occurrence of this was from a hit from the side so rule that out as normal use. Did not hear anything about the second one and now this is the third. Hard to say what the cause was since it was a second hand bike (that was my assumption based on the comments). No one company is 100% perfect (ie. BMW), but it would be interesting to see what happened here. My guess was that the stress crack was there before your trip on the gravel and that just put it over the edge. Better there than doing 75 MPH on the interstate I guess.

Glad you came out unscathed.
 
It's clearly not a design problem. I have 63,000+ miles on mine and have flogged the piss out of it offroad, as have others. I hit a pothole (with a passenger on board) at 60mph the other day that left my back and neck sore for 3 days. No issues. I've run extremely rough terrain with a lot of gear weight. No failures.

Andrea Livio did 62,000 miles around the world in much tougher conditions than that picture you posted, and with a shit ton of gear. No failures. I know it doesn't fit the narrative that all the CARCs are weak and a bomb waiting to go off, but you can clearly see, by scrolling through some of Andrea's pictures that it's clear that the CARC isn't weak.

http://www.stelvio2stelvio.it/images

You either got a bad casting, or something happened to it between assembly and shipping. The upside is, you (the dealer) can replace that part for about 500 bucks and move on. Or not.
 
I will say this first. This is not directed to anyone on this fine forum, so take it for what it is....venting.......

This is why I prefer this forum to the "other one". Broad brushing an issue does not happen here. Sometimes I think the worse enemy to the brand is some of its biggest fans by stating that all Carcs have an issue, or that all 8V flat tappet engines will blow up (go ahead, read the "other guy" and see for your self). Not only does it turn people off of the brand, it really pisses people off that don't over react to a situation and paint everything one color.

Do people really think for one second that Piaggio would hide something like this and not fix it if there was a even remote chance of an known issue that they caused that could potentially kill someone. Remember the shock linkage last year. They halted sales and made sure that every one of them was changed based on one suspected failure. After their investigation they replaced them all free of charge when it could have "potentially" affected a small population of the bikes out int he field. That took them all of a couple of months to figure that out. From what I remember, the first failure on the Carc was sometime last year. Why the hell would someone think they would not do the same thing in this case.

I have a 2012 NTX with 30,000+ miles. Original tappets, original swing arm, original clutch, original gearbox, original spoked wheels, original brake levers, original tank, original ECU, original wheel sensors...did I miss any thing else that was supposed to blow up. If I reacted to everything I read on the internet, I would never leave my house in fear of my life.

Just ride the damn thing and enjoy it.............

Just my 2 cents.:)
 
Well said. For the most part, same here. I did have the rollerization because of tappet failure, but I just didn't consider it that big of a deal. The factory supplied the parts on a bike that was 2 1/2 years out of warranty. I paid labor which was about the same as a full service. It's the only time my bike has been in the shop. Other than that, it's been bulletproof.

Like I've said multiple times, If something catastrophic were to happen to my Stelvio, I'd go out and replace it with another one tomorrow. I like it that much.
 
. . . This is why I prefer this forum to the "other one" . . .
Other one?
I've got four others in my bookmarks bar! :blush:

I like to glean all the info that's out there whenever I get a new (to me) Bike (or car).
Yes, you have to wade through a lot of drivel sometimes, but I can live with that.

As Aerosmith put it, "I don't wanna miss a thing . . ." :rock:
 
Other one?
I've got four others in my bookmarks bar! :blush:

I like to glean all the info that's out there whenever I get a new (to me) Bike (or car).
Yes, you have to wade through a lot of drivel sometimes, but I can live with that.

As Aerosmith put it, "I don't wanna miss a thing . . ." :rock:

I am the same way, but I only have 2 bookmarked, can you post the link to the 4 you have, thanks
 
Yes, I read that the first time.;)

Problem with looking everywhere for information is that you also have to have the ability to sort the drivel out from the important stuff, not everyone has that skill. I have so many times seen posts saying never buy a new range Guzzi as they all break down. Now apparently ALL the CARC swingarms are about the break up. All hundreds of thousands of them.
 
I only have three. Man....I am missing out on more fun.

ADV is bearable. Mostly good folks there that get it. No one person dominates the conversation with their personal speculations. Moderator pissed me off once by deleting a very innocent post so rarely do I go back but I check in from time to time.

A forum is only as good as its people. All it takes is one to spoil the bunch. Facts not speculation.
 
. . . can you post the link to the 4 you have, thanks

Adventure Rider Forum, Stelvio 'Threadfest'.

GuzziRiders.org CARC model threads.

Wildgoose Chase Guzzi.

Moto Guzzi Club UK Forum.

I also have this one saved, not a forum, but some useful downloads (Manuals/Wiring Diagrams/Parts lists etc).
Guzzitek

I mistook it for this site originally . . . :blush:
 
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. . . Man....I am missing out on more fun . . .
If you really want some fun, get a vehicle type that's owned predominantly by the under 20s, and go on their forum(s)!

I have an Italjet Scooter for a runabout, when I occasionally go on Scooter forums, I really do worry about the future of our Race . . . :worried:
 
I mostly visit Wildgoose and ADV Rider. I come here from time to time for the good tutorials and calmer atmosphere. I have been riding MG for very long time and am not upset by whatever the next "issues" are for any given model. I pretty much expect them after all this time. Those who say the older MG bikes didn't have problems (sometimes pretty serious ones) either didn't ride them much or never did. The fact is that all brands have problems to one degree or another. If the bike you are riding makes you happy then its worth fixing. If not jump to the next latest and greatest that comes along. Some folks seem to do that anyway. Heck if I listened to all of the commotion over the 2012 NTX I now presently own (just rollered it this month) I should expect to look out the window and watch it simply burst into flames at any moment. If the swing arm issue does turn out to be a systemic problem or a localized run of bad castings there will be a recall and replacement. In the mean time I am riding as winter is coming here in the Midwest and the season is about over for another year.
 
Guys, for direct competition offsite links, please, direct links from this website are not welcome... you can post info, just not hyperlink it (thanks for the understanding), as web traffic is king. If people drop in just to link people away, there would be no GuzziTech. guzzitek.org was started overseas after he asked if it was OK, then we turned and gave it to Greg at thisoldtractor.com - the wiring diagrams by Carl Allison (a good friend of ours) also lives on this site under Resources linked above, along with many other things. Thanks for the support in keeping it linked here.
 
Guys, for offsite links, please, direct links from this website are not welcome, as web traffic is king. If people drop in just to link people away, there would be no GuzziTech. guzzitek.org was started overseas after he asked if it was OK, then we turned and gave it to Greg at thisoldtractor.com - the wiring diagrams by Carl Allison (a good friend of ours) also lives on this site under Resources linked above, along with many other things. Thanks for the support in keeping it linked here.

Sorry Todd, not where I meant for this conversation to end up but figured it was just a matter of time before we saw your post. Was meant as a compliment to this forum and not an advertising to some of the others (actually, quite the opposite). Guzzitek.org, Guzzitech.com, thisoldtractor and Carl Allison are all great and very credible and trusted resources for the community. This is where I come to be helped and help when I can. Thanks again for keeping it running. Little extra in your envelope this year.........
 
Sorry Todd, I didn't mean to ask for something that would take away from your web site. God know this has been great information and you transformed my bike, which I didn't see available on any of the other web sites.

I just like to read all available information on any new bike I purchase and have too much time on my hands at work. I already look at 10 different motorcycle forums as it is Take down the links is ok by me
 
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