2009 Stelvio chassis number ZGULZA000.

[Flojo]

Long term ownership. I hope the following helps.
I bought this bike used from a Guzzi dealership in Croydon South London in 2012 with 11,500 miles.
The bike now has 40, 000 miles on the clock.

What has gone wrong.
At 28,000 miles replaced rear shock, with a new original unit.
The centre stand snapped on holiday at a petrol station. (I stopped it from falling over but, not impressed)
New centre stand from steindinse appears to have new modified bracket and really heavy.
Spokes have rusted and will need replacing.
One of the relays failed the day before a trip abroad. Replaced all four relay switch's.
Exhaust gaskets,
New battery.
New oil pressure switch.
Replaced spark plug covers as per this forum suggests.

Whats good about it.
I am a "slow in fast out merchant" and this bike has plenty of power low down to grunt you out of corners/hairpins and has a surprising turn of speed. It took a long time to get the suspension right for me but I have no complaints about the handling. The fuel gauge is annoying but I am used to it now. I adjusted the throttle cables at the handlebars the power is smooth and fuel consumption is between 47mpg and 50mpg! I tend to look after my bikes so the regular washing allows me to keep an eye on things and keeps it looking, well good!
The centre stand breaking is disappointing and generally the quality of components across the motorcycle industry is poor, with magazine road testers suggesting with new motorcycle models they should allow for a new rear shock, even when the bike costs £11,000 and upwards.
I will keep it for a while longer and at the moment there is nothing I want to replace it with. I would buy another Stelvio and give it 8 out of 10.
To all the forum members that post their problems and the experts that solve them thank you very much the advice and help has allowed me do my own servicing and keep the Stelvio on the road.
Cheers.

 

[canuck1969]

Welcome Flojo....you experiences are in line with others experience.

The exhaust gaskets are a know maintenance item. You need to keep an eye on the clamps and keep then tight. They will loosen over time and then spit the gasket out. On my 2012, I used some copper RTV to glue them in place and not an issue anymore.

The shock was, well, no pun in intended, but a little shocking. Don't remember the last time I heard of one go but it is possible since it is a used bike and hard to tell what the previous owner put it through.

For the center stand there was a TSB issued for that in addition to other TSB that include wiring harness rub points. There are other TSB you may want to look at that may or may not apply to your year. I posted a thread with the lastest ones I had access too. Lost that access so not sure if there are any more from last year. Pay particular attention to the ECU cover one. On your year the ECU was mounted with the plugs facing up so water infiltration was an issue.

https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/tsbs-for-stelvio-ntx-abs-standard.13988/

New battery is normal for a 2009. If that was the original, you got some good life out of it. Typically 3 to 4 years is pushing it with the stock battery.

Oil pressure switch is common but once replaced don't believe there are many re-occurrences.

Same goes for the relays. Mine are still good but keep a couple of spares on the bike for the day it happens.

As for the spokes, not sure how common of an occurrences that one is but again who knows if the previous owner was a fan of salty roads or sea side adventures.

Other things to look out for are the rear wheel speed sensor in rainy weather. Believe there is a fix for it if has not already gone by applying silicone to it but just do a search are you will find the answer. They changed the design on the 2012 so that problem was eliminated. Also, it would be nice to see if the cam recall was done on the bike and replaced with the harder cams. If not, it will be just a matter of time on your year before they do. Good news is if they do go, Guzzi is now offering the roller kits for free but you need to pay for the labour to get it installed (or just do it yourself). Last is the oil leaking from the bell housing. This comes from the rear main seal. There was an issue with the use of bolts that were too long and not providing a tight seal. Hit and miss on this one but if you have the issue, you will see oil dripping from the hole at the bottom of the bell housing.

All in all a good bike that only gets better with age. Enjoy

 

[brlawson]

It wont matter if the cam was redone as the flat tappets will eventually fail. you will need to do the roller upgrade. Just got done with mine and at 60,000 miles they were in pretty bad shape. Not a hard job but if your lucky you can work something out with your dealer. Guzzi will supply the parts but you have to pay for the labor. You will need kit C.

 

[John Warner]

It won't matter if the cam was redone as the flat tappets will eventually fail . . .

I'm still not convinced, Flojo has 40,000 miles on the originals, would be interested to know what oil your Dealer uses Flojo.

My '09s VIN is outside the range of this recall notice (as is Flojos), and on the 'good' side, i.e. prior to the range quoted.

Service Communication: 2009-001 USA PRE-UPDATE CAMPAIGN NOTICE Technical Update Campaign-Stelvio 4V 1200 Engine- Camshaft follower/bucket replacement. Models affected: 2009 Stelvio 4V models within a specified VIN range Stelvio 4V: ZGULZC0029M112385 to ZGULZC0009M112689 Production Date Range: 04/29/08 – 10/02/2008

 

[canuck1969]

It wont matter if the cam was redone as the flat tappets will eventually fail. you will need to do the roller upgrade. Just got done with mine and at 60,000 miles they were in pretty bad shape. Not a hard job but if your lucky you can work something out with your dealer. Guzzi will supply the parts but you have to pay for the labor. You will need kit C.

Don't confuse the soft cam issue with the suspected DLC coating issue on the 2012+ models. Two totally different reasons for failure. They are replacing failed cams on the pre 2012 (North America, MY11 Europe) with the rollers as an upgrade. The failure route is different for both bikes.

60,000 miles is pretty good on a flat tappet twin motorcycle engine. Nothing lasts for ever.

I am still not convinced that the DLC coating is an across the board issue and unless you have specific proof. I have a 2012 with 30,000+ miles still going strong and has not needed a valve adjustment pretty much since the first service. If have used Motul 10W60 for the last 1/2 of those miles and change it twice a year or 10,000 km, whichever comes first. Pretty much like the good book says.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.........if it is broke, improve it.

 

[brlawson]

wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=78879.0

I realize there is a difference and if the op is lucky and the upgrade has not been done they will likely rollerize the engine to fix it. Guzzi has already admitted there might be a problem by supplying replacement parts at no cost. Not trying to feed the haters but its not a matter of if it is a matter of when. I never knew I had an issue as it happened over time and the bike ran just fine in the process. I can only hope the oil filter did its job. I would recommend getting any flat tappet engine checked.

Proof you say....

 

[Flojo]

I'm still not convinced, Flojo has 40,000 miles on the originals, would be interested to know what oil your Dealer uses Flojo.

My '09s VIN is outside the range of this recall notice (as is Flojos), and on the 'good' side, i.e. prior to the range quoted.

Hello everyone
The service book supplied by the dealer shows a recall for cams so I can only assume any modifications are current and complete. The engine does sound tappety but it is running well, the plugs light brown, and the fuel economy quiet good, 47-50mpg at times usually and it doesn't appear to use oil so I think all is well. I do the servicing myself and use 10w 60 in the summer and 10w50 in the winter. I was touring around the Dolomites in Italy in the summer, 34 degrees centigrade, through a traffic jam, the air/oil cooled engine must have been going through hell. It was not motorcycling weather.
So far I have had no problems with the engine, I've checked the clearances and they seem nice and snug.
The relay was a problem but because of this forum I identified the culprit and used contact cleaner then Vaseline on the fuse box. The bike start within quarter of a second on pressing the red button, almost like its apologising for breaking down. I replaced all relays at the same time.
My preferred tyres at the moment are the conti trail attack 2. But when the rear was fitted there was an air leak to the drive side of the tyre for the complete circumference and it went down very quickly. it was removed and inside the wheel on the shoulder there appears to be a serrated tape which is starting to wear. I stand to be corrected but I think this is to stop the wheel rotating inside the tyre should you be mad enough to lower the tyre pressure and take this bike off road. The problem was resolved by inflating the tyre to 70psi until the leak stopped then setting the correct pressure.
Could someone confirm that there are no timing marks on the flywheel when checking valve clearances ( I use the long screw driver in plug hole technique) and how hard is it to get to the ecu??? And disconnecting the fuel line from the petrol tank is it always that awkward?
Regards
Flojo.

 

[John Warner]

Don't confuse the soft cam issue with the suspected DLC coating issue on the 2012+ models. Two totally different reasons for failure . . .

OK.
That's the first time I've heard that there are two separate Cam and/or Follower~Tappet issues (bearing in mind that until the middle of Sep this year, Stelvios, or any other Guzzis for that matter, weren't even on my 'radar').

So, did/do the pre '12 models have the DLC coating, or were/are they un-coated?

The 2009 notice I quoted refers to 'Camshaft follower/bucket replacement', no mention of Cams.

So, I still read it that mine is 'safe', as it's a pre-2012 model, and the VIN falls before the 2009 Notice range.

If I'm missing something, what the hell is it?


This is in no way a questioning of anyone's knowledge by the way, I'm just a new owner trying to dig out the facts . . .

 

[brlawson]

Mine is a 2010 model and I bought it knowing the cam issue from 2009 was resolved at that time and the DLC coating was introduced. As it turns out that upgrade was not sufficient. Think about why Guzzi would switch to a roller design in the middle of a model year(2012). I took proper care in changing/using proper oil and valve adjustment. Some folks say it was caused by a cooler wetter environment. That may accelerate the process but I live in the southeast and environment has little to do with it.

I am not all that bummed about it. It was about 1k for the upgrade and now have peace of mind and hopefully another 60000 mile to go. It's still a great engine and I love the bike. I went through this same thing with my hydro California and still have that bike too.

 

[canuck1969]

I think you are mis-understanding my point, I do not doubt that there are 8V motors with cam/tappet issues as I have seen all the posts and pictures but at no time has anyone proven (or disproven) that it will affect "ALL" 8V motors. It is all conjecture. If someone wants to get their bike checked out then that is fine, but when someone (not you) posts that all 8V motors "WILL" fail without proof that is what gets my back up as it is all based on speculation. Also, one failure of a bearing in a bike that had DLC coating does not mean that DLC in the engine will kill it. If that was the case, your engine would have been dead a long time ago.

Guzzi offering the parts for free on bikes that develop the problem is not a admission of quilt or that they are hiding something. It is an admission that there is an issue on some of the bikes and they will deal with them on a case by case basis.

I realize there is a difference and if the op is lucky and the upgrade has not been done they will likely rollerize the engine to fix it. Guzzi has already admitted there might be a problem by supplying replacement parts at no cost. Not trying to feed the haters but its not a matter of if it is a matter of when. I never knew I had an issue as it happened over time and the bike ran just fine in the process. I can only hope the oil filter did its job. I would recommend getting any flat tappet engine checked.

Proof you say....

 

[brlawson]

I do understand your point as I was in the same camp as you until one of the moderators of this board showed me pics of his 2009 model tappets. I bought a kit the next day. My damage was as bad or worse than his as we have similar mileage on both our bikes Everyone that I know that has a flat tappet engine, and I do know a few, that have checked their valves has shown sings of wear (even 2012 models). I honestly hope that yours are still in proper form but I doubt it. Take it to a dealer and pay the nominal fee and have it checked. If there is an issue I understand they will start the warranty process at that time.

I am not really the chicken little type but the issue is starting to gain momentum.

 

[canuck1969]

To each his own I guess......

 

[MotoG5]

Could someone confirm that there are no timing marks on the flywheel when checking valve clearances ( I use the long screw driver in plug hole technique) and how hard is it to get to the ecu??? And disconnecting the fuel line from the petrol tank is it always that awkward?
Regards
Flojo.

Hello Flojo,
I had no timing marks on the flywheel of my 2012 NTX. I too use the screw driver in the plug hole method for finding TDC. I did though place punch marks on it when I first set the valves so that from that time on I could be sure I was doing it in the same place each time. Not a big deal but it makes finding the right place much faster. And yes that damn fuel line connector drives me nuts every time I have to deal with it. I haven't broken it yet and have read the tutorial on it but it still it manages to give me hard time.

 

[MotoG5]

To each his own I guess......

Hi canuck,
I am pretty sure we met at the Canadian MGNOC national two years ago. At any rate I wanted to at least give you my story on the flat tappet issue. I too felt like you do now when this all first came up. But after talking to quite a few NTX owners here in the US Midwest at various rallies and campouts over the last couple of years I was beginning to suspect that what bralwson is saying may well be true. I went ahead and checked my cam gear(12' NTX @ 16k miles) this fall and sure enough the dlc was well worn even though I had none of the "indicators" that anything was going on. So I did the conversion at my cost. At this point I feel, and of course this is just my opinion based on my experiences, that if you are running flats on any 8V engine this is very likely going to be trouble at some point. And if you wait until the clearances are already opening up radically engine damage will have occurred. I do however agree with you that just the dlc loss on those bikes that have the coated tappets if caught early before base metal is going away will not suffer any damage from that alone. If that was the case with the dlc loss then my motor lower end would have failed many miles before I looked into the cam boxes. I wont bother to post my pics as you and others have most likely seen ones just like them. A good friend just bought a used 09' Griso that has had the original soft cam recall done but he will be taking a look to see if he may want to do the roller upgrade this winter. One thing I am not clear on is that when the original soft cam fix was done were the dlc coated tappets used or just better made OEM parts to replace the too soft units?

 

[John Warner]

. . . use the screw driver in the plug hole method for finding TDC . . .

You probably know this already, but using that method will not get you the true TDC point.
It should be close enough for adjusting Valve Clearances, but if you ever need the precise TDC point (Ignition Timing checks for example), then the only sure way is the 'Dead-Stop' method.

Here's one write-up . . .
shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=123659

 

[Flojo]

You probably know this already, but using that method will not get you the true TDC point.
It should close enough for adjusting Valve Clearances, but if you ever need the precise TDC point (Ignition Timing checks for example), then the only sure way is the 'Dead-Stop' method.

Here's one write-up . . .
shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=123659

Its why I think this web site is brilliant. MotoG5, Mr Warner, and canuck thank you all so very much.
Regards
Flojo.

 

[John Warner]

No problem Flojo, it's what we're all here for!

It's easy to forget what it was like without the internet, for those of us of a 'certain age' at least!

 

[Paul_Tim]

re Tappet Failures and cam replacement

My '08 model had the cam replacement mod done by a Guzzi dealer some time before I purchased it three years ago with 16K miles on the clock, I had hoped that this would eliminate any problems but no. It's just had the complete kit C conversion to the tappets done at 32K miles following excess wear on the RH cylinder valvegear. Guzzi honoured the materials cost promise so it just cost me the labour (about £500 inluding service and MOT I think).
Only problem was when the cams were done I believe the rocker covers are changed, when the Kit C was fitted it assumes you have the original cam covers and Guzzi will not pay for these if they've previously been changed, Dealer (Twiggers) had a second hand set which were fine for me but a new set costs £250 on top.

 

[John Warner]

Was the original replacement done as a precaution, or had they started to 'go'?

 

[Paul_Tim]

Was the original replacement done as a precaution, or had they started to 'go'?

No idea, was done by Haywards in Cambridge but the only info I have is the receipt for the work, sorry