Collision theories??

[stripperguy]

My son just picked up this 2015 V7 Stone from an insurance clearing house.
203 miles on the odometer. It is a "total Loss" vehicle.

We can't imagine what could have caused the seemingly sporadic damages.

The steering stop on the lower triple clamp is sheared off, and the bars dented the tank. There is also a scuff on the tank just below the Moto Guzzi emblem, along with a very minor scuff on the right side passenger peg.
Bar ends, brake, clutch levers are untouched, as are the wheels, pipes, seat, turn signals. Frame, forks are straight and untouched. Brake pedal, shift lever, footpegs are also untouched.
Oddly enough, the steering lock pin was bent, preventing the key from operating the ignition.

We guess that could all be explained by a fall on a soft, uneven surface, maybe.

But here's the enigma:
Pre auction photos showed the lit odometer at 203 miles, but with the damage to the steering lock pin we could not turn on the ignition. So...the steering lock pin was damaged after the photos!?
That lock pin is 10mm diameter steel, not easily yielded.

So, forum detectives, any theories of what caused the initial and subsequent damages?
BTW, we picked up the bike in VA and will be retitling it in NYS. He's been looking for a unique bike for over a year, I say he'll really enjoy it.

 

[rbm]

I also bought my V7R from an insurance recovery centre. It had a broken rear fender and tail light damage that wasn't consistent with the original accident damage, so I surmised that the personnel at the centre don't treat the vehicles with any care. I would suspect the same for your son's ... that the damage to the steering occurred while in the possession of the recovery centre. They might have hit the wheel against an object while moving it (I wouldn't be surprised if they used a fork lift to do so).

 

[stripperguy]

rbm,

Thanks for the reply...my SIL theorized that the tail end whipped while the front end was strapped on a trailer for transport from one yard to another.
We buy a fair amount of insurance wrecks and have noticed two themes:

1. Cost to repair are miniscule compared to insurance estimates
2. Clearing house employees are brutes

 

[john zibell]

If the steering lock is that damaged, make sure there is not additional damage to the steering head. If the head is damaged, it will probably need straightening, and if distorted where the bearings reside, it would require upper frame replacement. Sometimes it is best to just part out bakes that are damaged this heavily.

 

[not-fishing]

This is to easy, it's a theft recovery. The thieves were trying to make it ride able and did the damage.

Don't ask me how I now.

 

[GuzziMoto]

This is to easy, it's a theft recovery. The thieves were trying to make it ride able and did the damage.

Don't ask me how I now.

So, did the thieves take the photo of the odometer reading (meaning the ignition was on)?
I do agree that often damage caused by thieves is from the general lack of giving a shit about the bike. But some of the damage, including the ignition lock that was broken and would not allow the ignition to be turned on, seems like it was inflicted during recovery or even later. The thieves are not the only ones who did not give a shit about the motorcycle.

 

[elkgrichard]

Some of the recovery with these bikes is not often done by people who care what the heck they are doing. They use fork lifts to move the bikes around and often damage happens after the bike is in the yard.

 

[stripperguy]

Thanks for the input, guys...
Both my son and I enjoys challenging puzzles, figuring out what happened will be more challenging than performing the simple repairs.
We carefully studied the photos from the insurance clearing house (IAAI) and are certain that the photos with the odometer showing 203 miles was not taken at the particular yard where we took delivery.
What's so puzzling is that there is virtually no damage to the extremities, yet the steering lock was severely mangled.

Here's a look at the mangled parts, the beat up tamper resistant screw head is due to our disassembly procedure.

 

[not-fishing]

No question about it, theft recovery. My son had an Aprilia stolen a few weeks ago and it showed pretty much the same damage.

Funny thing was I was able to get the bike running with a screwdriver in about 10 minutes.

Great find.

Use an alarm disk lock.

 

[stripperguy]

Yeah, it seems like a theft recovery, but the clearing house clearly indicated the damage was from a collision

 

[rbm]

If the bike was a theft recovery, they would be obligated to disclose that in the description for the auction. That information affects price.

It is possible that the lock got damaged while moving the bike with a forklift (in a sling which is pretty normal) and the tire hit an object. It wouldn't show up as damage to a part like the rim or handlebars, but could impart enough energy through the steering to bend the locking pin.

 

[elkgrichard]

I totaled out a sportster some years back and it was recovered and sent to a yard.

About two weeks after the accident I end up going over to the yard to remove some after market stuff I had installed on the bike that the insurance company allowed me to remove. The bike in that two week period had taken on even more damage then original accident. Combination of tow truck people and the yard people who just stack them in like chord wood with fork lifts. Friend who was with me at the time of the accident had taken pictures of the bike before the tow truck got there and that saved my ass, because a few items had been removed from the bike, like my Corbin seat. So a theft situation went on between the yard and the tow truck folks. That yard since that time now use 24 hour security cameras and pictures are taken of the bikes before the tow truck people load the bikes. I was lucky I had pictures which helped me at least cover the cost of that Corbin seat. I end up giving a deposition to the court for the insurance company. Things have changed since then.

 

[stripperguy]

rbm,
That's a plausible theory, swinging sling damage. The bike is missing a reflector on the left fork tube, and has but a few minor scuffs, certainly not enough to warrant a total loss. If not for the "does not start" designation, bids would have been much higher than my son's winning bid of $3,300.
Here in NYS, we must submit a request for retitle inspection, submit proof of ownership, and receipts for any repair parts, mostly to disprove theft. We then wait (up to 5 months for me once) for an inspection by NYS officials. I've personally seen vehicles impounded on the spot and the "owners" marched away in handcuffs! Anyway, this inspection costs $150 plus another $50 for a new title, which may or may not be branded "salvage vehicle". It is a convoluted and lengthy process, if I were trying to make a living from this, it would be pretty tough to survive.
BTW, any theft recovery, whether damage free or not, is branded "salvage".

You said your bike also was an insurance recovery? What sort of primary damage did you need to repair? And seeing that you're in Toronto, was it as involved there as it is here in NYS to get the bike street legal?

 

[stripperguy]

I totaled out a sportster some years back and it was recovered and sent to a yard.

About two weeks after the accident I end up going over to the yard to remove some after market stuff I had installed on the bike that the insurance company allowed me to remove. The bike in that two week period had taken on even more damage then original accident. Combination of tow truck people and the yard people who just stack them in like chord wood with fork lifts. Friend who was with me at the time of the accident had taken pictures of the bike before the tow truck got there and that saved my ass, because a few items had been removed from the bike, like my Corbin seat. So a theft situation went on between the yard and the tow truck folks. That yard since that time now use 24 hour security cameras and pictures are taken of the bikes before the tow truck people load the bikes. I was lucky I had pictures which helped me at least cover the cost of that Corbin seat. I end up giving a deposition to the court for the insurance company. Things have changed since then.

I guess these stories are universal...
In addition to the occasional motorcycle rebuild, I have also flipped Jeeps, when the deal is right.
The last Jeep I repaired, retitled and sold (a 2005 Rocky Mountain edition TJ) was missing the faceplate for the aftermarket radio that the previous owner had installed. I had inspected the Jeep a few days before the auction and all parts were intact. Photos from the listing also showed all parts in their place. By the time I trailered the Jeep home, the radio faceplate was missing. I was compensated for it by the clearing house, they indicated that it may have been stolen by another potential bidder.

 

[George_S]

No matter what the clearinghouse said, I bet it's damage from a theft or botched theft attempt followed by improper handling along the way. Probably got towed to a dealer, then to the insurance co's shop, then to the clearinghouse. If it was a collision, add one more tow to the beginning- to the police tow pound. All along the way, the tower's thinking was "Hell, it's already damaged and the insurance company is going to pay, so no need to be super careful with this one."

 

[rbm]

You said your bike also was an insurance recovery? What sort of primary damage did you need to repair? And seeing that you're in Toronto, was it as involved there as it is here in NYS to get the bike street legal?

My bike was involved in a house fire and got burnt. Fairing, seat, some switches and indicators were toasted. The bike only had 2000km (1200 miles) on the clock at the time of the accident. It sat in the yard all winter and I bought it in the spring for a song (less than what your son paid) because the recovery centre couldn't sell it; they're in the business of moving vehicles and no one wanted a fire damaged bike. When I checked it over before purchase, all the important stuff was intact. It even lit up when I turned the key in the ignition, so I knew I could rebuild it.

I had to replace the instrument cluster. Luckily found a NOS one for $100. I removed the melted plastics and added the Stucchi fairing. I had the seat recovered, and replaced the indicators with used ones. The rearsets had been stolen at the yard so I bought new ones.

It was very straightforward to transfer the bike. It's just like buying a used vehicle. I had to pay the purchase price, tax and ownership ($75). They transferred the ownership to my name on the spot. I arranged insurance and, once repaired, had the safety done. Then it was a trip to the MTO again to get the plate and registration sticker.

BTW, there's no SALVAGE brand on titles for motorcycles and ATVs in Canada, only IRREPARABLE or NONE (no brand). So, once a vehicle is determined to have damage that risks it's integrity, it is branded IRREPARABLE and can never be licensed for road use again. Cars on the other hand have SALVAGE branding and can be brought back to NONE if repaired and certified.

 

[Jorge Sarse]

Some of the recovery with these bikes is not often done by people who care what the heck they are doing. They use fork lifts to move the bikes around and often damage happens after the bike is in the yard.

What he (not fishing) said !

Forget the alarm... a big dog works wonders. Just ask your friendly local law enforcement friends

 

[BugSpatteredJacket]

BTW, there's no SALVAGE brand on titles for motorcycles and ATVs in Canada, only IRREPARABLE or NONE (no brand). So, once a vehicle is determined to have damage that risks it's integrity, it is branded IRREPARABLE and can never be licensed for road use again. Cars on the other hand have SALVAGE branding and can be brought back to NONE if repaired and certified.

This sums up the problem here, even in Quebec. So many amazing deals to be had but the bike would forever be in limbo, illegal to ride on roads. That being said, our insurance works different in Quebec whereby if you are involved in an accident and deemed not responsible, your own insurance pays out for the damages regardless. Its screwed up because inevitably your premiums increase even though you are not at fault but the insurance companies want their money back any way they can. So in the case of a motorcycle accident, if the bike is salvageable, you are better off not claiming (if you can afford not to do so) on your insurance if you want to repair it and return it to the road. If the insurance company deems it as a write off and you accept payment for said bike, your bike is doomed and destined for the scrap heap.

The OP's bike would be exactly such a bike. Which is crazy but there you have it.

 

[elkgrichard]

Lot of waste going on with bikes and insurance claims. Here in California with the high labor rates, a bike falling over off the side stand can result in a total out catagory. You can't even make this stuff up.

 

[stripperguy]

3 or 4 years ago I bought, repaired, retitled and rode (for a very short time) a Kawi 900 cruiser.
It had a scraped front fender, broken floorboard and bent front brake lever. I spoke with the original owner and he told me that he basically dropped the bike in traffic. Never touched another vehicle, never slid.
I see many other bikes (and cars) just like these...I'm not sure who the insurance companies are catering to, repair shops?
Can't be the insured, they see their premiums climbing and climbing.

Anyway, my son is just this week applying for a retitle inspection, we'll see how long the wait is.