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Charges to update ECU under warranty?

Sleekmachine

Sleekmachine

Just got it firing!
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
20
Location
Quebec City
Hi all -

I'm from Quebec City, Canada; my local dealer wants to charge me 120 CAD$ to update the ECU, while my bike is in the shop for some works done under warranty. I've asked for the update, but he wants to charge me for it. Can he do that, even if my bike is still under warranty? Do you know Piaggio's policy about ECU's upgrades? I think that 120$ is pretty steep for a few minutes of work ...
 
I'd have to say that the $120 sounds a bit steep, but consider this. The software to do that costs the dealer in the neighborhood of about 3K per year, then there is the cost of the hardware on top of the software. Also there is the technician's time. Some dealers may consider the software cost the price of doing business (and possibly build that into their labor rate), others will do there darnedest to recover the cost.
 
My local dealer in San Diego did it for free while it was in for the first service.

BTW, I just returned from Quebec City. I love that place! I almost had to shove my wife on the plane. She's ready to go back.
 
Sleekmachine said:
Hi all -

I'm from Quebec City, Canada; my local dealer wants to charge me 120 CAD$ to update the ECU, while my bike is in the shop for some works done under warranty. I've asked for the update, but he wants to charge me for it. Can he do that, even if my bike is still under warranty? Do you know Piaggio's policy about ECU's upgrades? I think that 120$ is pretty steep for a few minutes of work ...
Click to expand...

Under warranty? It oughta be free. My $.02 worth...
 
As John stated. The software is not cheap plus the mechanic's time. Sure, Guzzi should at least cover an update at the first check up because you can bet money it has been changed since production but that is Guzzi's fault. Can't blame the dealer other than $120 seems a bit high for a 1/2 hour job. My shop charges actual shop time at $100/hour. Took them 3/4 of an hour supposedly but I was there and figured part of that time was fiddling with my non working trunk and pulsing brakes both of which were being inspected for warranty. Talk to any dealer and you will know Guzzi does not pay diagnostic time very easily if at all.
 
Just had my Cali 1400 serviced. Dealer flashed the new program during the service. Didn't see a line charge for it on the bill. Don't know how old your Cali is, but the flash made a noticeable difference on mine.
 
$120 is insane. It is literally a 10 minute job (unless the cali has some magical way of doing it that takes an hour. . The map comes from Piaggio so there is no charge to the dealer. Yes the software and hardware to do it..blah...blah...blah....that was paid off a long time ago with other services.

I have had my Stelvio map updated before and know others who have had dealer maps update and it was free....especially under warranty since updated maps/ECU programs are correcting runability issues...this isn't like microsoft and put an update out to generate more business by making the previous versions obsolte. If you have an issue how it runs on the old program (cough...cough) then it should be free. Give MG Customer service a call and see what the real story is...........

Just my 2 cents
 
canuck1969 said:
$120 is insane. It is literally a 10 minute job (unless the cali has some magical way of doing it that takes an hour. . The map comes from Piaggio so there is no charge to the dealer. Yes the software and hardware to do it..blah...blah...blah....that was paid off a long time ago with other services.

Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...

The Cali will take more than 10 minutes. Remove the seat then the 4 phillips screws and 2 Allan screws holding the battery cover on. (Maybe allow time to find where that one that fell off the screwdriver went to.) Pull off the clutch master cylinder bleed hose then after you pull off the cover fish the plug out of it's holder behind the battery. Connect the computer and power leads then wait for everything to talk to each other and decide what program is needed. No idea if that requires a constant connection to the internet or if the updates are stored on the dealer's computer. However long that takes when it is done use those famous words: "Reassemble in reverse order".

Most shops charge a minimum of 1/2 hour labor and I'll bet this job is at lleast that if you include the wrench going to get the bike and returning it to where the customer can ride it away.

I am only justifying the shop time here. Not that Guzzi does not pay for it at least once. It is their screw up and they can't expect you to pay the thousands of dollars they rip the dealer off for the software and licensing not to mention a computer to do it with.

My favorite example of this is when Honda came out with the CX500 Turbo. Maximum number per dealer was supposed to be 2. If you wanted to sell them you had to purchase a special tool kit. I forget the exact price but I think it was $2,500. If you sold both of the bikes at full retail you did not make enough to cover the cost of the kit.
 
abbienormal said:
The Cali will take more than 10 minutes. Remove the seat then the 4 phillips screws and 2 Allan screws holding the battery cover on. (Maybe allow time to find where that one that fell off the screwdriver went to.) Pull off the clutch master cylinder bleed hose then after you pull off the cover fish the plug out of it's holder behind the battery. Connect the computer and power leads then wait for everything to talk to each other and decide what program is needed. No idea if that requires a constant connection to the internet or if the updates are stored on the dealer's computer. However long that takes when it is done use those famous words: "Reassemble in reverse order".

Most shops charge a minimum of 1/2 hour labor and I'll bet this job is at lleast that if you include the wrench going to get the bike and returning it to where the customer can ride it away.

I am only justifying the shop time here. Not that Guzzi does not pay for it at least once. It is their screw up and they can't expect you to pay the thousands of dollars they rip the dealer off for the software and licensing not to mention a computer to do it with.

My favorite example of this is when Honda came out with the CX500 Turbo. Maximum number per dealer was supposed to be 2. If you wanted to sell them you had to purchase a special tool kit. I forget the exact price but I think it was $2,500. If you sold both of the bikes at full retail you did not make enough to cover the cost of the kit.
Click to expand...

The key concept here is "under warranty". We're not discussing the enthusiast wanting to keep his three year old Cali with 40,000 miles on the clock up to date here...

Jim
 
You're not approaching this in a manner that would prompt getting an update under warranty. Don't go in and ask for an ECU update. Go in and tell them it's not running right and give them a list of symptoms. During the course of they're investigation, they should update the ECU.
 
pokeyjoe said:
You're not approaching this in a manner that would prompt getting an update under warranty. Don't go in and ask for an ECU update. Go in and tell them it's not running right and give them a list of symptoms. During the course of they're investigation, they should update the ECU.
Click to expand...

Yup.....
 
Did no one read the original post (by Sleekmachine)? His bike is in for some OTHER warranty work, and he asked for an update he knows exists. Shop should NOT be charging for any emissions-related updates (and what could be more related than an ECU?). Here in the US, there are plenty of lawyers who would like to get involved in something like this...
 
James Chance said:
Did no one read the original post (by Sleekmachine)?
Click to expand...

Yup.

His bike is in for some OTHER warranty work, and he asked for an update he knows exists.
Click to expand...

"Other" is not the ECU.

Shop should NOT be charging for any emissions-related updates (and what could be more related than an ECU?).
Click to expand...

Uneven fueling may not be emissions-related. Unless the customer complains about fueling issues, I can understand the dealers position. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I think the dealer should check for any updates and install them while he has the bike for any reason. Perhaps the OP should approach the dealer with that consideration.
 
pokeyjoe said:
Yup.



"Other" is not the ECU.



Uneven fueling may not be emissions-related. Unless the customer complains about fueling issues, I can understand the dealers position. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I think the dealer should check for any updates and install them while he has the bike for any reason. Perhaps the OP should approach the dealer with that consideration.
Click to expand...

Ok, I'm really trying to understand here. On a fuel injected, ride by wire engine, how can ANY user-noticeable irregularity in fueling behavior that has been addressed by a factory update NOT be emissions related? I mean, if it's running poorly (no matter what the rpm is), more than likely its' generating something it shouldn't, correct?

Sure, I get the dealer put out a lot of money originally, but the law couldn't care less about that fact (here in the US at least). This sounds like a dealer/factory issue, and maybe it's possibly just a cost of doing business that has to be swallowed. Does Piaggo handle something like this (that touches every Cali 1400 of that model year shipped to the USA) on a case by case basis? Pretty stupid, if so. Definitely a sub-optimum way of doing business. Courts have a nasty habit of exacerbating issues like this, particularly if a largish group of unhappy owners decide to start a class action over the issue....
 
Reviving an old thread here, as I'm about to pick up my new Custom. How can I tell if the bike has the latest ECU update?
 
I would just ask him to ensure that the ECU is at the latest revision and if possible, get a printout (assuming that can be done) that might encourage him to not just lie and say 'yes'.
 
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