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Help please w Valve Adjustment on 2007 Griso

John, you have me with the rotational torque. Looking at the shop manual it says 15Nm then 42Nm. Any rotational torque I have encountered says so many turns after seating. Similar to an oil filter except calculated stud stretch instead of rubber gasket compression.
I should mention that I am looking at a 2012 Norge manual.
 
John, you have me with the rotational torque. Looking at the shop manual it says 15Nm then 42Nm. Any rotational torque I have encountered says so many turns after seating. Similar to an oil filter except calculated stud stretch instead of rubber gasket compression.
I should mention that I am looking at a 2012 Norge manual.


His Griso is a 2 valve, you have the 4 valve head which is different. Initial torque is 15NM, then plus 90 degrees on all, then an additional 90 degrees on the long studs. A rotational torque gauge should be used to get this correct.
 
John, now you have me confused. You said the newer 8Vs use rotational torque. What are you calling "newer". The 2012 use the method that Rudy is saying. There is no rotational torque spec, just a two stage spec. Assuming you are referring only to the 2V bikes that have the rotational torque and not implying that the newer 8V use rotational since I don't believe that is the case (and do not see it anywhere in the spec). Just want to make sure we don't add more confusion to this case.
 
John, now you have me confused. You said the newer 8Vs use rotational torque. What are you calling "newer". The 2012 use the method that Rudy is saying. There is no rotational torque spec, just a two stage spec. Assuming you are referring only to the 2V bikes that have the rotational torque and not implying that the newer 8V use rotational since I don't believe that is the case (and do not see it anywhere in the spec). Just want to make sure we don't add more confusion to this case.


I didn't say 8 valve bikes, just newer bikes. I've been around Guzzi motorcycles since 1975. The CARC 2 valve bikes are newer to me. They use the rotational torque. His 2007 Griso is a "newer" bike to me. The 8 valve bikes to me are an abomination. More complications than are necessary for a good running motorcycle. I'll never own one, and I'm never eager to work on them.
 
Which is why I stated I was looking at a 2012 manual. When you said "Newer" and you knew his year I figured all after that, Ok. I understand now.
 
Thanks, Guys.
Yes - It was a bent ex valve (100% Clear in looking into exhaust with the pipe out).
Took off tank, head, and rockers.
Removed valve (with specialty clamp). Clearly bent valve.

Will purchase new intake & exhaust valves, new rocker rods, and new o-rings for valves and rockers. Manual states the head fixing screw is 40-42 Nm for certain engines and 15 Nm + 90 + 90 for other engines. Will pick up a rotational gauge for that, as well as valve lapper tool, and compression gauge to verify solid compression. Hoping valve guide is OK.

(I honestly have no idea how something that catastrophic could have happened when I was simply adjusting the valves.)
 
Martin, The short studs only are an additional 90. The long studs, total 180. Since the valve is bent, there is a good possibility the guide has sustained some damage. I'd recommend a K-line insert at least in the exhaust guide. see http://www.sbintl.com/home.html Contact SBI for a machine shop in your area that installs them. It takes special equipment to do them.
 
Thank you, John. Already contacted SBI.
To clarify - If the valve guide is damaged, do I [or a shop] need to take it out, and bore out a new hole? Or are you saying that a K-Liner can be inserted into the old & damaged guide so as to make a good 'track'? Regardless of whether the old guide is good or not, I assume you're recommending an k-line insert?
Thank you.
 
The big question here is how did the valve get bent. Hate to go through all that work just to have it happen again. A valve adjustment should not cause this issue. Even if you set the valve gap at the wrong TDC they should be loose and not open and therefore no way to get bent. Only way I can see it is if the cam skipped a couple of teeth when you were advancing it which would mean a stretched chain or faulty tensioner. Even with those two items, can see it happening with just advancing the engine to find TDC. I guess since the hydraulic tensioners are not pumped up it is possible but you would think that would have happened when you first start the engine. May want to see what happened first.....
 
True. Def two problems right now. Bent valve and how it got bent.
Will check out tensioner and chain while the valve & head are getting fixed.

Thanks for that as have been trying to figure out the real root cause.
 
The big question here is how did the valve get bent. Hate to go through all that work just to have it happen again. A valve adjustment should not cause this issue. Even if you set the valve gap at the wrong TDC they should be loose and not open and therefore no way to get bent. Only way I can see it is if the cam skipped a couple of teeth when you were advancing it which would mean a stretched chain or faulty tensioner. Even with those two items, can see it happening with just advancing the engine to find TDC. I guess since the hydraulic tensioners are not pumped up it is possible but you would think that would have happened when you first start the engine. May want to see what happened first.....

Canuck, he doesn't have a Stelvio, No hydraulic tensioners one cam, one cam chain internal to the timing chest, and long push rods. Possible bike over revved and got valve float. He should see a dent in the piston if it made contact. If not, then valve may have overheated somehow causing the bend. If piston made contact it should be replaced.

Martin, the existing valve guide is not removed, it is reamed out and the liner is inserted. Also if the piston made contact, it should be replaced. Any top end work I do I have these liners installed. see
 
Fair enough John....understood.

Just puzzling as to how it could have happened. Sounds like the bike was running fine and the valve was fine before the valve adjustment and then not after. How can you bend a valve stem adjusting the valves. Puzzling.....
 
Thanks All -
As I thought more about it and previously recall incorrectly finding TDC and tried to crank, the rocker rod got stuck under the rocker arm. Thereby compressing the spring and keeping valve open. Engine seized and began entire process again.

If that's the cause, the piston is still pristine. No dents. Pics are after a cleaning. I am ok on the piston front. The pic w the dirty piston looks like there is something, but it didn''t stand out when inspecting piston. Was looking out for an impact and nothing.

Regardless of whether that was cause, I am still worried about a bad chain and bad tensioner, in addition to bad valve guide. Wondering if there's a way to check.

http://imgur.com/a/zULLh

(Scratches are of me picking away carbon to check how that can be removed. Removed gently with rag)

6ruk9UH.jpg
Ch1o3if.jpg

ULANhxf.png
 
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You are lucky you didn't damage the piston. Remember, if the procedure doesn't go easily, something is wrong.
 
Exactly.
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.
To finish first you must first finish.

Ya think I'm OK on timing chain? (with the info you gathered from this thread)
 
Exactly.
Slow is smooth; smooth is fast.
To finish first you must first finish.

Ya think I'm OK on timing chain? (with the info you gathered from this thread)


If the timing chain was off, you would have busted valves on both sides, not just one. I think your chain is OK.
 
All -
Thank you very much for your help.
Update: Got it working - but there is a noticeable clicking noise in the left and problematic cylinder. Valve gaps set to: IN: .15mm EX: .20mm

To recap: Busted an exhaust valve. Took off head and replaced intake and exhaust valves (AF1 Racing really came through. Thank you!). Cleaned the inside of the head. Lapped new valves and performed a air/water test - where I shoot compressed air through manifolds to see if any bubbles appear through the valves. Valves are underwater as the 'chamber' is filled w water. No bubbles, no leak, so passed.

Put the head back on. New rod for the exhaust, and a new gasket. The new gasket was multi-layered-steel.

Adjusted this left cylinder to IN: .15mm EX: .20mm, and proceeded to put everything back. Fired right up.

*However* there is a noticeable clicking noise in this left cylinder. No loss of power. I can always hear it.

Here is a recording (The camera & youtube seems worse than it actually is. Picking up more than I can hear)


Should I readjust to IN: .15mm EX: .20mm (without destroying the valve....this time), or go back to Ex: 0.152 mm and In: 0.102 mm (per manual), or could something else be an issue in the left cylinder assembly?

Once again, thank you all for your help.
 
I can't say I've heard that before. I have no idea what that is. Valve clearance should be 0.004 inch (0.1mm) intake and 0.006 inch (0.15mm) exhaust
 
Thanks again, John.
I'll go back to .1 mm and .15. (in/ex, respectively), per yours and manual's suggestion.
A couple people earlier in this thread suggested setting to .1mm , .20mm (in/ex, respectively)
Appreciate your time on this.
 
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