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At Wits End with Starting Problems!

BSG Mike

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Apr 17, 2015
Messages
44
Location
Big Stone Gap, VA
Still having problems with my '07 Griso not starting unless I leave it on a trickle charger. Have tried everything including new battery and starter, MPH Starter Relay Kit and it still gives me the "one click" sound if it has been sitting even a few days without the charger. If I'm riding every other day or so, it's OK. The dealer who has worked on it is equally confused about the problem. After they performed the aforementioned work they kept if for a few days, starting it to make sure it was OK. When I picked it up I started it and rode it into my trailer and headed home (I'm nearly five hours from the closest MG dealer), left in the trailer over night and when I got it out the next morning it would not start. Put the charger on it over night and it started the next a.m.
Any thoughts anyone? Anyone one interested in an otherwise very clean Griso with under 18K miles on it that runs really well? Love the bike, but it's trying my patience!
 
Have you checked the battery voltage before trying to start it when it has sat? Since charging it lets it start it seems something is drawing out power while parked. Maybe pull the positive terminal and do an amp probe with everything off like it is parked to see if tere is a power draw. Does it have an alarm? Try turning it off.

Just my first guesses.
 
If you have ruled out the battery (and sounds like you have) only really leaves a parasitic drain or you are not charging the bike when it is running. This also assume all your connections to the battery and starter are good and clean.

What is the voltage at the battery when the bike is running.

For the parasitic drain abbinormal has you going down the right path. Most half decent voltmeters will have an amperage setting for less than 10 amps which will be fine for this. Disconnect the positive or negative and then put one probe of the meter on the battery post and the other on the terminal wire. If you are getting more than a few milliamperes you have a drain. If this is the problem it will be a big number since it drains the battery that fast. Finding the drain cause after that is not that difficult but for now see if that is the issue.

Hang in there. It will be an easy fix. Hard part is finding out the problem.
 
Have you checked the battery voltage before trying to start it when it has sat? Since charging it lets it start it seems something is drawing out power while parked. Maybe pull the positive terminal and do an amp probe with everything off like it is parked to see if tere is a power draw. Does it have an alarm? Try turning it off.

Just my first guesses.

Thanks. I agree that some sort of electronic vampire is sucking enough of the power from the battery to cause the bike not to start. I'll try what you suggest.
 
If you have ruled out the battery (and sounds like you have) only really leaves a parasitic drain or you are not charging the bike when it is running. This also assume all your connections to the battery and starter are good and clean.

What is the voltage at the battery when the bike is running.

For the parasitic drain abbinormal has you going down the right path. Most half decent voltmeters will have an amperage setting for less than 10 amps which will be fine for this. Disconnect the positive or negative and then put one probe of the meter on the battery post and the other on the terminal wire. If you are getting more than a few milliamperes you have a drain. If this is the problem it will be a big number since it drains the battery that fast. Finding the drain cause after that is not that difficult but for now see if that is the issue.

Hang in there. It will be an easy fix. Hard part is finding out the problem.
Thanks. Voltage at battery when bike is running is 14.2 according to the bike's display. I'll check it with a meter as I've been told not to trust the display. I'm generally confounded by electrical problems but will see what I can come up with.
 
Thanks. I agree that some sort of electronic vampire is sucking enough of the power from the battery to cause the bike not to start. I'll try what you suggest.
BTW, the alarm light flashes when the bike is off, but I didn't think the alarm was actually activated. Any idea on how to turn it off or disconnect it?
 
BTW, the alarm light flashes when the bike is off, but I didn't think the alarm was actually activated. Any idea on how to turn it off or disconnect it?
Is it the immobilizer light (Triangle). Not 100% on the Griso, but you should be able to turn it off in the menu. Do you have an alarm on the bike??

14.2V says you are charging. At the battery may be a little higher but does not sound like charging is an issue. Parasitic drain sounds like your probable cause. Just need to find out what.

If you are not familiar with the process, if you find you are pulling to many amps during the test, you start to pull the aux fuses one at a time to narrow down the search. Once you pull a fuse and the amps go down, then that circuit is your problem and just need to see what is on that fuse.
 
Is it the immobilizer light (Triangle). Not 100% on the Griso, but you should be able to turn it off in the menu. Do you have an alarm on the bike??

14.2V says you are charging. At the battery may be a little higher but does not sound like charging is an issue. Parasitic drain sounds like your probable cause. Just need to find out what.

If you are not familiar with the process, if you find you are pulling to many amps during the test, you start to pull the aux fuses one at a time to narrow down the search. Once you pull a fuse and the amps go down, then that circuit is your problem and just need to see what is on that fuse.

No alarm. Thanks for the walk-thru. Very helpful!
 
What sort of battery did you have installed?
Some of the Lithium Iron batteries can be problematic at lower temps (mine would not start my 1200 Sport if the temps were in the 50s). I would get a clunk from the starter but that was all.
 
t
No alarm. Thanks for the walk-thru. Very helpful!

Here is a youtube video on the process. Should explain it better.

Any accessories on the bike like heated grips, seat that are wired directly to battery. I would start there. Failing that and there is nothing turned on, you are going to be looking for a small short somewhere on the bike that is not drawing enough current to actually blow the fuse. Those are the PITA ones to find. Lets hope it does not go there. Do the test and see what you get on the drain level and post.




Had another though...what is the voltage of the battery when you try to start it and it does not start. Don't go by the dash voltage for this test. Unless the bike is running, the dash displayed voltage is a wild ass guess at best. Take if right from the battery. With a new battery (which assumes it does not have a cranking amps issue), and a new starter (not a faulty starter pulling to many amps) if you are still reading 12.4 to 12.8 (give or take), it may point to something else. If it does start, what voltage did it bring it go down to.

Unlikely that this is the cause, but rule it out just in case.
 
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Have you done the mod on the starting relay as discussed under "startus interruptus" ??? this has sorted many starting problems including mine.
 
Have you done the mod on the starting relay as discussed under "startus interruptus" ??? this has sorted many starting problems including mine.

He stated that was done in his first post. As stated previously, it appears to have a parasitic drain on the battery. Still to be confirmed.
 
The other problem I found when I had this issue was that the starter solenoid plunger was covered with sticky grease. I had to remove it, cleaned all the grease off the plunger and inside the solenoid, then put a very light smear of machine oil on the plunger before reassembling. The original grease had become quite sticky and must have been restricting the movement of the plunger.
The solenoid body is brass lined, and there is a school of thought that it should not be lubricated at all, but run dry. The pivot in the mechanism should be greased of course.
Also it has been known for the spade terminal connection on the end of the solenoid to be loose, this causes a high resistance joint and will give the same result.
 
Apologies if its been mentioned and I missed it, but the battery ground connection behind the starter motor should be checked.

Also the battery terminals themselves. Are they clean? The symptoms suggest bad connections somewhere. Perhaps wriggle the 30A fuses in and out a few times might help too.
 
t

Here is a youtube video on the process. Should explain it better.

Any accessories on the bike like heated grips, seat that are wired directly to battery. I would start there. Failing that and there is nothing turned on, you are going to be looking for a small short somewhere on the bike that is not drawing enough current to actually blow the fuse. Those are the PITA ones to find. Lets hope it does not go there. Do the test and see what you get on the drain level and post.




Had another though...what is the voltage of the battery when you try to start it and it does not start. Don't go by the dash voltage for this test. Unless the bike is running, the dash displayed voltage is a wild ass guess at best. Take if right from the battery. With a new battery (which assumes it does not have a cranking amps issue), and a new starter (not a faulty starter pulling to many amps) if you are still reading 12.4 to 12.8 (give or take), it may point to something else. If it does start, what voltage did it bring it go down to.

Unlikely that this is the cause, but rule it out just in case.

Wow! Again thanks for the helpful info. Ironically or fortuitously, I ran into a guy yesterday at a restaurant while out for a 200 mile ride. He owns something like 30 Guzzis! As we chatted I mentioned the problem. He goes to his car and retrieves a new volt/amp tester and checks out the wires leading from/to the battery. The tester is the type that has two curved pieces that open scissors-like and go around the wire. He could find only trace in amps that he said shouldn't be causing major problems. Gotta love the motorcycling community! I will watch the video you sent and see what happens from there.

BTW, I don't have any accessories wired directly to the battery. I do have an accessory plug-in wired to it as well at the MPH Starter Relay doodad.
 
Apologies if its been mentioned and I missed it, but the battery ground connection behind the starter motor should be checked.

Also the battery terminals themselves. Are they clean? The symptoms suggest bad connections somewhere. Perhaps wriggle the 30A fuses in and out a few times might help too.
Thanks! All those bases have been covered so far.
 
What sort of battery did you have installed?
Some of the Lithium Iron batteries can be problematic at lower temps (mine would not start my 1200 Sport if the temps were in the 50s). I would get a clunk from the starter but that was all.
Had a new Yuasa installed a couple months ago. Don't believe it is lithium but will check.
 
Running into another Guzzi rider is a rare occurance. Running into someone that has that many is bordering on lottery territory.

Would be nice to know how many milliamps he actually measured. Think the battery on the Griso is an 18 Ahr battery. Which basically means even 1/4 of an amp (250 milliamps) would kill your battery in 3 days.

I am sure that he knew exactly what he was doing but can't say I am a fan of non contact clamp meters for reading milliamps in 12vdc circuits in the range you are looking at. Contact methods are much better when you are trying to measure down that low. May want to check yourself just to rule it out 100%.
 
As Canuck1969 stated, that isn't the best way to read small amp draw. Best to use an in-line meter. Anything more than a few miliamps is too much. All that should be drawing power with the key off is the clock system in the dash, and a bit for residual memory in the ECU.
 
Had a no start problem. Checked all diagnostics on ECU all clean. The dash gave me a 07 once or twice. Turned out the positive and negative terminals on starter were loose. Some times fired up but had weak starter action when it did. Upon tightening of nuts no problems....Covered stater relay and all load and ground terminals with ACF-50 upon removal of tank.
 
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