Hi John
I have a copy that I am sure I got via this forum,maybe not. But page 154 relates to gearboxes. I will go online and check copy there
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Rollerization
- Thread starter j duncan cooper
- Start date
Hi John
I have a copy that I am sure I got via this forum,maybe not. But page 154 relates to gearboxes. I will go online and check copy there
The workshop manual has you set the left cylinder first, then only rotate 90 degrees to set the right cylinder. That means you would have to rotate counter clockwise to set the right. The in head cams are driven by the timing shaft that is turning half the speed of the crankshaft. I think you answered your own question, but I'm not sure at this point. I haven't had one of these engines down this far yet, and I hope I never do!!
I'm just breaking in a new (2014 carry-over) Norge made in March, 2014. Am I past the danger date for needing to be on top of this? My other Guzzi's are a '73 Eldo and a '99 EV so not too tuned into current issues and am quite far from a dealer, doing my own service normally. Forgot what a pain it was to break in a new bike! Loving it, though.
2014 8V engines will already have roller tappets. You are good........
Hi John - answered my own question - by admitting i am a prat ? definately. Peter Roper has been adament in his past roller threads on WG that it doesnt matter which side you do first
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
You can't really "do both at the same time", as you say you did, without really messing things up.
Find someone that knows how to get the cams back in time. Hopefully, you did not bend valves.
Hopefully. i have just realised that the guide to set the little sprocket locating pin to 6 o'clock meant to set it at the bottom hole of the cover. i set it to 6 o'clock vertical on both sides
Have you obtained a copy (digital I hope) of the workshop manual? It will help you with this issue.
I have, it still doesnt relate to the page numbers you identified, and gives very little detailed advice - but i note it has (GB) in title so is possibly different - do you have a url ?
So did you rotate the cam gear off the chain to get to the vertical 6'o'clock? IF that is the case, you should just be able to put each cylinder at TDC and put the gears back to the correct 6 o'clock. Can't see it being more than 2 teeth or so. It does not sound like you damaged any valves since you did not hear anything, but explains why it is not starting on either cylinder. They are both slightly off probably the same amount but not enough to cause damage.
What bike is it and what year?? The manuals should be available in the download section. Is it s Stelvio??
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Norge
I will do it again,hopefully properly,and see what happens. It does turn by hand without any problems. I checked the valve gaps again and nothing changed, I suspect one would have opened up if a valve got bent ?
I will do it again,hopefully properly,and see what happens. It does turn by hand without any problems. I checked the valve gaps again and nothing changed, I suspect one would have opened up if a valve got bent ?
Guzzi Cat
Just got it firing!
Jim, I recently done the conversion on my Griso and I also had to take both sets of camboxes off at the same time as the shop needed both sets returned before they sent me the replacements supplied by Guzzi.
I set the left side to TDC first, then pinned up the tensioner and cable tied up the cam gear as you say you done and removed the cambox. I then turned the crank until the right side is at TDC and removed the tensioner on that side and cable tied up the cam gear on the right side. Then I fitted the new roller cambox on the right side and set the valve clearances when it was still at TDC. I then rotated the crank to bring the left side to TDC and fitted the new roller cambox and set the valve clearance on the left side. By cable tieing the left camgear, it was still loose enough to rotate when the engine was cranked by a socket on the flywheel and didn't jump a tooth or loose any timing.
Ideally I would have done the left first and then do the right but I had no choice when they needed both sets returned before they supplied the new rollers.
Hopefully if you cable tied your's the same way, it may not have skipped a tooth and you may need to make sure that the cylinders are at TDC before fitting the gear to the cam.
Also make sure to turn over the engine a few times by hand with the plugs removed to make sure that the timing is correct.
I hope my saga is some help to you.
Good luck with it.
WayneOrwig
GT Reference
VERY IMPORTANT that it is TDC on the compression stroke. NOT TDC on the exhaust stroke.
BE 100% CERTAIN! Once the chain has moved and the engine turned, it may be hard to tell. You may need to pull the front cover to verify it.
The one in the Downloads section on this site.
Thanks for the support guys..,travelling home tonight so will get to look at it again tomorow
100% Wayne...hopefully that is ingrained at this point.
Problem with pulling both boxes is you now have no idea which TDC you are really at. For a dealer to tell you to pull both boxes says something about the dealer in my opinion. And why do they need the old parts before they will send new. They only need pictures. I still have my old parts. No one ever asked for them back on the claim.
Guzzi Cat
Just got it firing!
Yep would be much easier if new parts were delivered first, but I was just glad to have the parts supplied by the factory. But it's not that difficult to make sure that you are at TDC on compression stroke by inserting a straw or something similar down the sparkplug hole and checking if valves are closed when the pistont reaches TDC as can be seen by the travel of the straw. Check this against marking on cam gear which should also line up. I then pull the bung on the flywheel and put a mark on the flywheel that can be verified when TDC is reached again.
Maybe I was lucky, but I didn't have any problem finding TDC on compression stroke.
I searched for a TDC mark behind the plug on the front cover but nothing. I never thought of looking over the flywheel for a mark. I take it there is a plug I can remove to look for it?
Guzzi Cat
Just got it firing!
The plug that I am talking about is a black rubber bung to the right of the gearbox oil filler plug and to the left of the oil cooler rad on the right hand side of the bike. There is subbosed to be a factory mark there on the flywheel for TDC on one of the cylinders (the left I think) but I couldn't see it on mine!! So I put my own paint mark when I am sure that I have it set at TDC on the compression stroke and before I remove anything.
Hope this helps,
Finding the right TDC with the cam boxes in place is not the issue, trying to find it with no cam boxes is a little more difficult as there is no visual reference since there are no cams to actuate the valves. If you have one side still in tack you can use it as a reference. Unless you marked everything properly before you took them off it would be a challenge. Only reference would be the pin hole on the cam gear assuming it did not skip a tooth in the process. You are correct, if you are careful and place some marks on the flywheel through the inspection hole you can do it, but bigger chance of something going wrong.
You would have to pull the front off and start indexing the engine as per the manual. That was the purpose of only pulling one box and replacing one box at a time. Full proof.
There is no longer a mark on the flywheel that you can see. Apparently it is visible on the front of the flywheel but that is useless unless you have the engine out. Once you find the proper TDC, just mark the flywheel yourself for each cylinder.
You would have to pull the front off and start indexing the engine as per the manual. That was the purpose of only pulling one box and replacing one box at a time. Full proof.
There is no longer a mark on the flywheel that you can see. Apparently it is visible on the front of the flywheel but that is useless unless you have the engine out. Once you find the proper TDC, just mark the flywheel yourself for each cylinder.