First Service Nightmare

[Tomintoul]

Hi all,

Bit of a waffle and a vent needed, I'm afraid.

I'm currently in the middle of doing my first service on the bike at 23000km. The last 2 services were done at the dealer, because the bike was under warranty, but that's drawing to a close, so I figured I'd do it myself from now on.

Now this is not my first time turning a spanner, but as the bike was bought new, it was the first time in years that I let a dealer near one of my bikes. So I figured this was going to be a nice easy service - a stroll in the park. I very quickly realised how wrong I was when I tried to remove the sump guard. The bolts holding it on had been gorilla-ed on. A pain in the bum, but nothing that couldn't eventually be solved with a Dremel and some swearing, with the added bonus of giving me an excuse to get the Stucchi guard instead.

Right, now that was out of the way, it was time to crack right on with the service. Shouldn't take too long. Except the oil filter seems to be a bit stiff on there and a different size to the replacement. Not a problem, I'll just drive 50km to get the right size tool and it'll be off in a jiffy.

Right size tool in hand and the bugger's still not shifting. OK, that's a tad annoying, but no worries, let's just punch the fella and twist it off that way. Nope, it's still not going anywhere, but it is ripping the crap out of the filter. Hmm. This is turning into a bit of a head-scratcher and a wall-kicker. On the bright side, my vocabulary's expanding rapidly.

A quick bit of Google-fu brings me to the Bogert Aviation film - now there's an idea. Some bright spark on a Ducati forum had fabbed something similar, using a hole saw, some wood and a couple of bolts. Ingenious, and just what I need. Off I pop to the local DIY store.

So when I return, I cut my bit of wood, drill the necessary holes, attach some M5 bolts and I cut off the bottom of the filter housing and remove the filter. Here we go - this should be off in no time. Bugger, it's just bent the bolts. Not a problem, I'll just use M6 bolts instead. Bugger, it's split the wood. That's fine, I'll just make it out of much thicker wood. Oh, so now the wood's split and the bolts have bent. OK, so that's the way you want to play, is it? Fine.

There's really only one option left. That sump's got to come off. At least that bit was an easy job. Right, so now at least I can see the remains of the filter and cut it right back so that I can see the offending bit. So, it's on so tight that it's splitting 2" wood. What next? Hang on - how far apart are those 2 holes at the back of the hole saw? 36mm? That's perfect - the metal won't split! Out with the Dremel and cut the hole saw down to size, fit new M6 bolts through the holes and marry them up to what's left of the filter. Bolts bend, filter remains completely unshiftable, like Russell Crowe giving an acceptance speech.

Right, let's get as much of that hole saw off as possible (Dremel to the rescue). Bugger, I'm out of M6 bolts. How did that happen? I had loads. Oh well, back to the DIY store. This time, you bastard, this time, I'm not shifting until you have. If I have to stay on this garage floor all day and leave my kids to walk home from school, I don't care.

Hallelujah! With the application of a subtle blend of psychology and extreme violence, the bugger gave the most unhealthy sounding squeak, but that was it - it started to go.

So anyway, the new sump gasket should be here tomorrow and I can get on with the service, safe in the knowledge that it shouldn't take me long At least I managed to get the swingarm bearings, shock linkage and CARC greased in the meantime.

 

[GTM®]

The right tools for the job they say... and a steep learning curve. The 8V's require an excessive amount of torque on the filter, else they'll leak. I find it more annoying at the number of filter variation (flutes), and the amount of tool I keep in my box now when servicing bikes. I've resorted to an adjustable three finger model for removal, and I keep the same (tool fitted from my box) filter on hand.
I feel your pain.

 

[Tomintoul]

And to think I bought this because I thought it would be easier to work on than my old Caponord I suppose at least now I'm doing it all myself, I'll at least know what's on there, and if anything goes wrong, I'll know who to blame...

 

[roadventure]

Hi all, Bit of a waffle and a vent needed, I'm afraid.

I hope you, at least feel a little better knowing that you won't go through these particular problems again.

I think my first trip out of the garage would be with pictures of the rounded screws to the dealer who did the previous "service" work. Probably wouldn't have made any difference but sometimes it just feels better to call an incompetent idiot, an incompetent idiot.

Hope future maintenance work goes more smoothly.

 

[canuck1969]

You do not need that much torque to install the filters on the Stelvio. I have used both the 14 flute UFI and the HiFlo filters. I torque them to the spec in the book plus a 1/4 turn. Have never had as much as a whisp of oil leak from them, and never had any issue in removing them. The old 8 flute UFI filters leaked if not tightened enough, but no filter in the world should need the amount of force that you put into that one.

If you are using UFI filters, make sure you get the 14 flute variety. Seems if you buy them from Piaggio in a Piaggio package you still get the 8 flute model. If they come in a UFI box they will be 14 flute...............no comment...................

 

[john zibell]

The right tools for the job they say... and a steep learning curve. The 8V's require an excessive amount of torque on the filter, else they'll leak. I find it more annoying at the number of filter variation (flutes), and the amount of tool I keep in my box now when servicing bikes. I've resorted to an adjustable three finger model for removal, and I keep the same (tool fitted from my box) filter on hand.
I feel your pain.

All the 2 valve bikes use 15 Nm as the torque for the filter. Do the 8 valve beast really need more than that? I've also found that chassis or general purpose grease is better on the oil filter seal than motor oil for installation and it removes easier as well.

 

[Tomintoul]

Well mine'll be going on with no more than 15Nm and I'll actually put some sort of lube on there - the old one was bone dry. TBH, I'm just glad it's off and I can get the old girl back on the road. In the meantime, I feel I've earned myself a beer

 

[GTM®]

All the 2 valve bikes use 15 Nm as the torque for the filter. Do the 8 valve beast really need more than that?

That should do it. Original spec was 18-20 Nm, but from memory the bulletin dropped it to 15.

 

[John Warner]

Sorry for your pain, but at least your witty write-up gave us all a good laugh!

I too found out the awkward way about the difference in Filter Flute standards . . .

 

[scottmastrocinque]

You do not need that much torque to install the filters on the Stelvio. I have used both the 14 flute UFI and the HiFlo filters. I torque them to the spec in the book plus a 1/4 turn. Have never had as much as a whisp of oil leak from them, and never had any issue in removing them. The old 8 flute UFI filters leaked if not tightened enough, but no filter in the world should need the amount of force that you put into that one.

If you are using UFI filters, make sure you get the 14 flute variety. Seems if you buy them from Piaggio in a Piaggio package you still get the 8 flute model. If they come in a UFI box they will be 14 flute...............no comment...................

Ditto. Drop of fresh oil rubbed between forefinger and thumb, then gently wipe forefinger around new HiFlo filter oil seal. Torque to factory spec. Not a drop of oil, ever, and the filter spins right off without a hitch at next oil service. Sometimes I scratch my head wondering what the hell some people are doing out there to their motorcycles...

I learned a long time ago from Master Motorcycle Mechanics, that 99% of the time, a leaking oil filter has been OVERTORQUED, thereby distorting the oil seal. More, is not better here.

 

[Lannis]

Well mine'll be going on with no more than 15Nm and I'll actually put some sort of lube on there - the old one was bone dry. TBH, I'm just glad it's off and I can get the old girl back on the road. In the meantime, I feel I've earned myself a beer

Your servi-logue was inspiring to read. The same thing happened to me on the first service; the sump guard bolts (two of them) would not come out, and a Dremel and a hand impact tool were required. I'm still using the plastic sump, though, useless though it may be.

My first oil filter was on gorilla-tight also, but it did give up to a 2" x 2" piece of oak with two 20-penny nails through it as a persuader. I just use UFI filters, I have an 8-flute and a 14-flute tool so I don't get surprised no matter what comes out of the UFI box, and I put them on to 15 N-M with a little motor oil on both sides and don't have a problem with leaks or with getting them back off.

Sounds like you've also done the "Big Job" of greasing the swingarm bearings. How did that go for you? I've got "Leafman's" pictorial tutorial bookmarked and will do mine this winter - it'll have about 45,000 miles on it so it's time, I'm sure ....

Lannis

 

[Tomintoul]

Scott,
It wasn't me that overtorqued the oil filter, it was a registered Guzzi dealer. Only took the bike to them because it was still in warranty. Learned that lesson.

Lannis,
Doing the swingarm bearings was surprisingly easy, although I did have the castle socket from my old Aprilia, which made things go easily. Leafman's tutorial is great, just have it handy and you'll be done before you know it.

Rob

 

[Lannis]

Lannis,
Doing the swingarm bearings was surprisingly easy, although I did have the castle socket from my old Aprilia, which made things go easily. Leafman's tutorial is great, just have it handy and you'll be done before you know it.

Rob

Thanks, that's encouraging. I've already been as far as installing a new rear shock, and I've bought Todd's castle socket and have it ready, so as soon as the first snow falls, I'm on it. It will have been 45,000 miles, hope there's still a bearing in there .....

Lannis

 

[scottmastrocinque]

Scott,
It wasn't me that overtorqued the oil filter, it was a registered Guzzi dealer. Only took the bike to them because it was still in warranty. Learned that lesson.

Lannis,
Doing the swingarm bearings was surprisingly easy, although I did have the castle socket from my old Aprilia, which made things go easily. Leafman's tutorial is great, just have it handy and you'll be done before you know it.

Rob

Oh yes, I understood that. I was talking "in general". Sorry you thought I meant you. I have found the overwhelming number of "mechanics" out there, to be woefully bad and lacking in the most basic of proper shop technique, especially with regard to torque force issues.

 

[john zibell]

Thanks, that's encouraging. I've already been as far as installing a new rear shock, and I've bought Todd's castle socket and have it ready, so as soon as the first snow falls, I'm on it. It will have been 45,000 miles, hope there's still a bearing in there .....

Lannis

The bearing is still there. It just might be covered in rust. I found one starting to rust at just 5K miles.

 

[Lannis]

The bearing is still there. It just might be covered in rust. I found one starting to rust at just 5K miles.

"Just In Case", is there a standard bearing that will fit in there if the old one has been neglected for too long? I'm afraid to check the prices on the Guzzi one ... ?

Lannis

 

[john zibell]

"Just In Case", is there a standard bearing that will fit in there if the old one has been neglected for too long? I'm afraid to check the prices on the Guzzi one ... ?

Lannis

There should be a number on the bearing race. Getting that out is the hard part. You need an internal puller as you can't drive it from the opposite side.