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V7II 600 mile service

Spumoni

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Oct 8, 2016
Messages
68
Location
Central NY
Like many others, the nearest dealership is too far away. I've researched the routine for the first service, and so far I have changed all of the fluids. I'm stalling on the valve adjustment because I'm uncertain about the head bolt re-torque. I know this must be done stone cold, before adjusting the valves. I found these specs:

"As for the head nuts, the smaller, upper one (M8) should be torqued to 28 Nm and the other four (M10) to 42 Nm."

I'm finding some controversy on whether I should crack them all loose before I re-torque, or not.

Also, why can't I find this info my service manual?

Any advice would be helpful.

Thanks!
 
Yes, back them off about 1/8 turn. Then torque to specification. There is initial resistance that must be overcome (static friction). If you don't back off just a little, you may get the specified torque without any rotation of the fastener which means it isn't correct. On the next re-torque, back off the 1/8 turn again if it only takes about 1/8 turn to reach torque you are good and shouldn't need to re-torque again.
 
Thanks for the info. I will back them off 1/8 before I re-torque.

To make matters worse, I found when I pulled off my first valve cover. It looks like foil from an oil bottle. Very disturbing.
 

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I'm feeling a little unconfident - I would like to be sure I'm interpreting the manual correctly. 28 nm for the top, 42 nm for the other 4.

Does the numbering pattern look correct for re-torque?

Thanks again!

51469043018  13C1B382 6F71 4D98 A302 3E1B33149314
 
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Sequence looks good. As to the foil, very interesting. No way it could get there from the sump.
 
Torque #'s are correct as well. Is that foil or more like metal shavings? I have found some of the most crazy bits all over the engine internally from Guzzi. None were a problem to the health of the motor.
 
Thanks for feedback. Not sure if it's thick foil, or a shaving. I'll have my friend/mechanic look at it.

I just read the small socket head on top should be torqued last, because it's the smallest. The internet can drive you crazy.
 
Thanks for feedback. Not sure if it's thick foil, or a shaving. I'll have my friend/mechanic look at it.

I just read the small socket head on top should be torqued last, because it's the smallest. The internet can drive you crazy.


Possibly, so long as you use a cross pattern you are good. So start at your three, and to to one last. 3, 2. 4, 5, then 1
 
It's done, but I'm not thrilled. I had to turn down a socket to get to the small nut on top. The bottom socket heads were very loose on both cylinders. I re-torqued about 3 times before they stopped moving. On the last re-torque of the small nut on top, it made a snap/click noise - I wasn't happy. I think the stud is starting to turn. Not sure why this would happen. I immediately went to the other side and the wrench clicked like normal with no movement. Went back and the nut was still turning, so I'm leaving that last one alone and hoping for the best. I will know after I ride it tonight.
 
It's done, but I'm not thrilled. I had to turn down a socket to get to the small nut on top. The bottom socket heads were very loose on both cylinders. I re-torqued about 3 times before they stopped moving. On the last re-torque of the small nut on top, it made a snap/click noise - I wasn't happy. I think the stud is starting to turn. Not sure why this would happen. I immediately went to the other side and the wrench clicked like normal with no movement. Went back and the nut was still turning, so I'm leaving that last one alone and hoping for the best. I will know after I ride it tonight.

I hope you didn't ride it. That crack could have been the nut failed. It shouldn't but it is possible. Slacken the torque on all and then remove that top nut. Inspect the threads on the nut and stud. Worst case the stud pulled out of the block. If that is the case, try a warranty claim.
 
Uh oh, I rode it - and it seemed totally fine. The nut wasn't free spinning, it was just not getting tight enough to make the wrench click. I'm several hours from the nearest dealer (which is why I did the service in the first place). I am really disappointed this happened.
 
Uh oh, I rode it - and it seemed totally fine. The nut wasn't free spinning, it was just not getting tight enough to make the wrench click. I'm several hours from the nearest dealer (which is why I did the service in the first place). I am really disappointed this happened.


Get this taken care of. Either the nut stripped or the stud is pulling from the block. Neither is good.

I had a stud pull on an airhead BMW. Even a time-sert wouldn't hold because the casting was so bad. Only cure was a new block.
 
Called the tech at the dealership and explained what happened. He asked me why I would recheck it a second time (re-torque)... I told him I re-checked them all several times. All of the large socket heads had to be re-torqued a couple times before they stopped. He blamed it on that, and told me it would not be covered under warrantee if I over torqued it. Not sure how you can over torque simply by checking it again at the same setting.

The good news is, I tried it again - very carefully at less foot pounds. It turned a little, then clicked. Went to the full 28nm and it clicked! Thank goodness. The stud must have just turned a little to scare the pants off me, then I chickened out and assumed the worst. I feel like won the lottery.

Thanks for all the help and advice. It's truly appreciated.
 
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Spumoni, glad everything worked out. That tech is mistaken. Checking again with a clicker type torque wrench it is impossible to over torque. I suggest you find a better technician in the future at a different dealer. How far is the dealer in Connecticut?
 
I just googled Hamlin Cycles in Bethel, CT - it's 3.5 hours from me. I only called that dealer because it's where I ordered the bike from (long distance from MN with USHIPl).

Hopefully I can get by with my local mechanic, and advice from the forum. The knowledge base here probably exceeds any dealership out there. Again, thank you for the help. I'm so happy it turned out ok.
 
Next time it might be worth removing the stud and refiting it with the appropriate locktite (studlock) to help lock it in place. It will then be less likely to strip.
Glad all OK at present.
Just a thought, threads must be clen and greasei free when torqued. A greased thread will slide more easily and can overload and strip. A greased thread needs to be torqued to about 60% of the dry thread value.
AndyB
 
I agree that would be best, but I'm so happy it wasn't an issue that I'm afraid to mess with it. The mechanic at the dealer told me NOT to loosen before I re-torque. I ended up following his advice out of fear, even though I understand they should all be cracked loose (and in what order is even more controversial). Since most of them were already a little loose, I'm not too concerned. But I did end up using a difference sequence. For some reason the 2016 750 service manual shows two different engines. I know this is not the same as my V7II, but I decided to use this torque sequence for the 4 main head nuts, and doing the small nut on top last. It's the only thing in writing I could find. Hopefully this wasn't a mistake.



Screen Shot 2017 04 30 at 15159 PM
 
I am not an expert on the Guzzi engine, but going back to basics, those 4 larger nuts on studs hold the head onto the cylider onto the block so should be torqued first. The small bolt pulls together mating surfaces to make them oil tight so is much less critical and logically should be tightened last.
Providing you use a criss cross tightening sequence on the 4 large nuts rather than tightening in a circle, and tighten them bit by bit I would not think the exact order of tightening is critical. Which is why you may have found different authors giving different tightening sequences
AndyB
 
Next time it might be worth removing the stud and refiting it with the appropriate locktite (studlock) to help lock it in place. It will then be less likely to strip.
Glad all OK at present.
AndyB


To properly set a stud you would need to remove the head and cylinder. Since it is tight now it probably isn't worth the effort. I've had to reset the studs on an old V50, and you really need those parts out or the way to do a proper job.
 
A little off topic, but at least related to the first post; I'm preparing for the 600 mile service on my V7ii, and have determined, thanks in no small part to great threads like this one, that I'm not up to the valve adjustment and head re-torque - at least the first time around. I'm looking forward to figuring this out when I have more space in my life and head to do so. The info in this post and forum is incredibly helpful. Luckily, in the meantime, I'm very fortunate to have a local mechanic who is well-regarded and fluent in Guzzi who's more than happy to pick up my slack and collect his fee.

Regarding the rest of the job; I've searched this forum and the net in general, and can't find much information about what fluids people are using for the V7ii. I gather that any oil with the recommended specs will be fine, but am curious to know what others are using and prefer, particularly for gearbox and "transmission"/final drive... and sources. Sounds as though many are getting away with reusing crush washers and the gasket on the oil filter, yes?

Thanks in advance, and sorry if this has been covered elsewhere and I missed it.
 
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