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Help! - What have I broken?

Adrian Beckham

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
37
Location
Northallerton, North Yorkshire, UK
Hi All,

Just back from a 1500 mile tour of France where my Cali Vintage performed wonderfully with the clock ticking over the 20,000 mile milestone in the process. However, first ride out after I got back home and I'm experiencing some very odd behaviour. It feels like I have alternating front and rear wheel punctures when cornering or riding slowly.
  • Low speed the torque reaction when blipping the throttle feels much more pronounced and the tyres feel really heavy as if one or the other has gone flat (they aren't and pressures are at 32 and 36)
  • On corner entry sometimes it feels like the front is sliding away from me, at others if feels like the rear is, still others it corners like normal.
I've not had chance to get things apart yet, but findings so far are:
  • Tyre pressures are OK
  • No sideways play in the front wheel (bearings were replaced about 5k miles ago
  • No play in the steering head bearings
  • No sideways play in either the rear wheel or the swingarm
  • There's a nasty noise like the chain is completely worn out (I know, but that's what it sounds like) when I spin the rear wheel.
I did have the rear wheel out before the holiday and everything went back OK with no issues while away. However, I did grease the splines on the throttle side of the rear wheel, which then melted and ran out onto the wheel rim?

I'm new to shaft drive maintenance so having nightmares about expensive crown wheel and pinion repairs. Can anyone guess what I've done so I can get some sleep?

Cheers,

Ade
 
It might be your U-joint and/or bearing gone bad.
First check: drain the oil in your end drive and check for debris, perhaps by feeling what settles down on the bottom of whatever container you use to drain the oil into or by sticking a magnet into that container and see what it attracts. If that seems ok I would highly suspect the U-joint, which requires end drive and swing arm removal.
 
Hi All,

Just back from a 1500 mile tour of France where my Cali Vintage performed wonderfully with the clock ticking over the 20,000 mile milestone in the process. However, first ride out after I got back home and I'm experiencing some very odd behaviour. It feels like I have alternating front and rear wheel punctures when cornering or riding slowly.
  • Low speed the torque reaction when blipping the throttle feels much more pronounced and the tyres feel really heavy as if one or the other has gone flat (they aren't and pressures are at 32 and 36)
  • On corner entry sometimes it feels like the front is sliding away from me, at others if feels like the rear is, still others it corners like normal.
I've not had chance to get things apart yet, but findings so far are:
  • Tyre pressures are OK
  • No sideways play in the front wheel (bearings were replaced about 5k miles ago
  • No play in the steering head bearings
  • No sideways play in either the rear wheel or the swingarm
  • There's a nasty noise like the chain is completely worn out (I know, but that's what it sounds like) when I spin the rear wheel.
I did have the rear wheel out before the holiday and everything went back OK with no issues while away. However, I did grease the splines on the throttle side of the rear wheel, which then melted and ran out onto the wheel rim?

I'm new to shaft drive maintenance so having nightmares about expensive crown wheel and pinion repairs. Can anyone guess what I've done so I can get some sleep?

Cheers,

Ade


Let's start with the obvious...

How many miles are on your tires?

Check the pressures with another gauge to verify.

There is nothing mechanical that will cause "the torque reaction when blipping the throttle feels much more pronounced". It's you.

Based upon your repeated descriptions, I suspect your tires are worn. How many miles are on them and what is their age?

The rear drive will make a sound when you rotate the wheel. Shaft drive failures are rare and I don't perceive from your descriptions, that this is the issue.

I look forward to the information about your tires.
 
I have seen drive shaft failures on low mileage late model Tonto bikes, but the description you give doesn't match the sound a failed drive shaft makes. So I'd say it is safe to rule that out. Unfortunately the on the new bikes, the velocity joint is incorporated into the drive shaft and is not replaceable separately. The failure indication is a clunking sound as you walk the bike, usually when the bike is hot. Sometimes when cold the failure indicator (sound) isn't apparent.
 
Thanks for the replies. The tyres are new (that was why I had the wheel out) and pressures reconfirmed as accurate After checking the bike tonight when cold I couldn't reproduce the sound, but it definitely wasn't a clunking, I would have said more of a ticking like a damaged bearing and with the bike on the stand (I didn't try wheeling it though), but as I say, there wasn't any play. will try to check the bevel box oil Thursday.

The handling was the thing that really got my attention, would a driveshaft failure cause that?
 
Defo not the tyres, they were fine when I scrubbed them in solo before my hols and also for the 1500 miles touring around France (they're Avon Road Masters). I would also expect a tyre issue to be predictable, whereas this is different almost every corner. Sometimes it grips just fine, other times it feels like I'm on diesel and it's either fine or really scary. I've just re-read my first post and the grammar may be a bit misleading. The steering feels really heavy and flat tyre like at low speeds. And cornering at any speed is unpredictable with a re-introduction of a weave at higher cornering speeds where bumps are involved (straight line is fine). After my hols where she behaved superbly I washed the bike (no power washer) and put her away, first ride out after that and I suddenly have the problem literally on the first corner I came to.
 
Have you checked the steering head bearings for ease of movement? Place the bike on center stand and jack up the front of the bike so the front tire is clear. Check the swing of the front wheel side to side. Movement should be smooth and easy with no drag or hard spots. Again, diagnosis via the internet is difficult. Always best to be with the bike and hands on.
 
Defo not the tyres, they were fine when I scrubbed them in solo before my hols and also for the 1500 miles touring around France (they're Avon Road Masters).

I couldn't find Avon Road Masters, do you mean Avon Roadriders?

I'm wondering if you've replaced a bias tyres with radial types? Certainly, the bias tyres have a stiffer side walls than radials do, and their inherent lack of flex means the sidewalls won’t "wash out" in a turn as easily as radials. This would be noticeable on a heavy motorcycle like a California Vintage, especially if it's loaded up with heavy luggage.

Just my $0.02¢, I may be completely off the mark.
 
Hi Guys,

Apologies, yes I meant Road Riders. I replaced like for like as the front still has plenty of tread so I'm hoping you're wide of the mark Dave, but I've been known to be wrong with the obvious before so not having a pop. :)

Totally understand the difficulties associated with internet diagnosis and really appreciate the effort put in by you all. Had a long conversation with a recommended mechanic today and I'm thinking wheel bearing based on what he says. I'll know more tonight when I get the wheel out. It would make some level of sense that the back would last about as long as the front (which was replaced about 3000 miles ago).

Head race bearings are on the list next, then swingarm stuff (which I'll be attempting to grease while I do the wheel based on researching this problem). Thanks again for all the assistance, promise to let you know what I find.

Ade.
 
Me again. Replaced the wheel bearing but no different. Had a close look at the steering and realised I could get at the tightening collar so backed it off a bit. Hadn't realised how tight the steering had got :( Weird behaviour was better at low speed, but still intermittent and wobbly as things got quicker. So I reckon I've found my trouble despite all the testing not showing any notchiness or play. New set ordered, hopefully in time for the weekend. Thanks for all the help

Ade
 
So it was the steering bearings. Top set were ok (replaced anyway) but the bottom set were very rusty and barely working. I can only assume the intermittent issue was caused by them occasionally behaving.

Thanks again for all the help :)

WIN 20170722 13 27 06 Pro

Ade
 
So it was the steering bearings. Top set were ok (replaced anyway) but the bottom set were very rusty and barely working. I can only assume the intermittent issue was caused by them occasionally behaving.

Thanks again for all the help :)

View attachment 12965

Ade

Adrian.

Thank you posting what you found.

Definitely something I'll keep in mind if things get squirly.
 
Not at all, only fair given the assistance I received. :)

For completeness, I found that hand tight on the steering nut was a bit too much and needed backing off a bit to get rid of the symptoms. I also found that the screen mount wouldn't fit afterwards as the two yokes are now closer together than they used to be. Perhaps a new, lower profile bearing? Honest, there were no bits left over! I slotted a slightly thicker washer under the top yoke and all is now groovy.

Ade
 
Hey Adrian, just seen your posts. I'm in Bedale, we should get together and talk Guzzi's. If you need any info / help give me a shout.
I used to own a V50 and Le Mans II in the 80's and now run another Le Mans II (amongst others) which I've done a wheels up rebuild on.
 
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