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Bleeding the brakes

kdirtrider

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Mar 27, 2014
Messages
61
Location
Grand Ledge, MI
Does anyone know if there is anything special that needs to be done to bleed the ABS module while bleeding the brakes? Does the dealer put the ABS in a special mode through the PADS system when bleeding the brakes?
 
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I have 22K miles on my 2014 Cali Custom. As we all know brake fluid is hygroscopic and needs to be replaced from time to time. I have a spongy front brake lever and I can't seem to get it back to normal by doing the standard bleed procedure. According to the service manual there is a way to purge air/old fluid from the ABS module through the diagnostics software (PADS?). Does anyone know if this procedure (service manual screenshot) can be done without taking the bike to the dealer?
 
If you didn't have a spongy front brake you could probably do the fluid change without the software. Since you have this symptom, best to take a trip to the dealer.
 
By spongy do you mean just not hard or completely dead and not resistance whatsoever. If there is still brake but just soft then you can try a couple of things.

1. Zip tie the brake lever all the way down to the grip and loosen the top on the reservoir. Leave it over night. This will force any remaining air to the top and out the reservoir.

2. Other thing you can do is take the bike out and actuate the abs. Please be careful when u do this. Straight line only. Don't want you ditching the bike. This will move the fluid out of the abs and then change the fluid again.

If neither of these work and you are sure you bled all the air out then it will be a trip to the dealer. I have never actuated the abs when changing fluid on my abs bikes and have never had an issue. I think you just have some air trapped. Give it a try and see what happens.
 
Thank you for the suggestions. I ride
By spongy do you mean just not hard or completely dead and not resistance whatsoever. If there is still brake but just soft then you can try a couple of things.

1. Zip tie the brake lever all the way down to the grip and loosen the top on the reservoir. Leave it over night. This will force any remaining air to the top and out the reservoir.

2. Other thing you can do is take the bike out and actuate the abs. Please be careful when u do this. Straight line only. Don't want you ditching the bike. This will move the fluid out of the abs and then change the fluid again.

If neither of these work and you are sure you bled all the air out then it will be a trip to the dealer. I have never actuated the abs when changing fluid on my abs bikes and have never had an issue. I think you just have some air trapped. Give it a try and see what happens.
By spongy I mean the initial bite of the front brake is soft. It still stops okay but needs more lever pressure. Pads are a good thickness and I have "HH" rated pads on it. Admittedly, I am an aggressive decelerator :rofl: and I am very sensitize to changes in brakes. I run "HH" pads on all my bikes and bleed the brakes every winter.

I did actuate the ABS several times on my dirt road and bled them again without any change in the feel of the lever. I think the next action is to remove the calipers and clean them real good.

Thanks for the suggestions!

If anyone figures out how to put the ABS in service mode, please post it. :clap:

Kdirtrider
 
Sounds like a little air. Did u try tie wrapping the lever overnight. That will get ride of any minute air and firm up the lever.
 
By spongy do you mean just not hard or completely dead and not resistance whatsoever. If there is still brake but just soft then you can try a couple of things.

1. Zip tie the brake lever all the way down to the grip and loosen the top on the reservoir. Leave it over night. This will force any remaining air to the top and out the reservoir.

2. Other thing you can do is take the bike out and actuate the abs. Please be careful when u do this. Straight line only. Don't want you ditching the bike. This will move the fluid out of the abs and then change the fluid again.

If neither of these work and you are sure you bled all the air out then it will be a trip to the dealer. I have never actuated the abs when changing fluid on my abs bikes and have never had an issue. I think you just have some air trapped. Give it a try and see what happens.
How can air escape with the lever zip tied? The bleed holes in the master cylinder piston will be covered, hence the build up of brake pressure. Or do you mean after the zip tie is released? I have heard more people recommend this trick, I suppose it is to de-foam the brake fluid and create one big bubble that is easier to release? Just trying to get some insight here...
 
It compresses the fluid and forces the air to the top more quickly since it is lighter. Helps to tap the lines and calliper at some point in the process to help release the last little bit. Not sure if that part helps but makes me feel better. The air then settles out in the reservoir when you release it.
 
View attachment 13019

I have 22K miles on my 2014 Cali Custom. As we all know brake fluid is hygroscopic and needs to be replaced from time to time. I have a spongy front brake lever and I can't seem to get it back to normal by doing the standard bleed procedure. According to the service manual there is a way to purge air/old fluid from the ABS module through the diagnostics software (PADS?). Does anyone know if this procedure (service manual screenshot) can be done without taking the bike to the dealer?

I did not see any reply to this and asking myself the same question:
How to get the ABS module into service mode without the dealer software? Can it be done with Diag? Another software?
 
I did not see any reply to this and asking myself the same question:
How to get the ABS module into service mode without the dealer software? Can it be done with guzzydiag? Another software?
This thread is a bit old but still no solution that I'm aware of.
Has anyone figured out a way to put the ABS module in service mode as described in the shop manual without taking it to the dealer??
 
Following this thread in the hope that it will help me address a soft rear brake situation despite bleeding brakes, etc.
 
Sorry,but leaving brake fluid exposed to the Air any more than you *must* to get it from the NEW container into the system is a bad idea.
I absorbs moisture from the air when in contact with it.

If bleeding it with fresh fluid doesn’t help.
You need to be able to get the ABS to kick in between each complete bleed in an effort to try and move fresh fluid through the ABS module.
Or take it to the dealer.
 
Sounds like a little air. Did u try tie wrapping the lever overnight. That will get ride of any minute air and firm up the lever.

Yes, this trick works great!

Simply tightly wrap a bungee cord around the brake lever and hand grip and leave it in this state for about 12 hours or so. Remove the bungee and pump the lever several times and the brake will be as firm as ever.

Try it and report back.

Jason
 
FWIW: Caveat emptor.

The brake system was never designed to remain under operating pressure for 12 hours or more!

What you are doing is pressurizing the whole system continuously for hours upon hours, something it isn’t designed to do, forcing the check valve into the open position and relying on the fact that air bubbles rise to the highest point in a closed system. If the banjo bolt on the master cylinder or a loop in the line is in fact the highest point, then the air will never get removed this way.

I have repaired blown caliper piston seals, master cylinder seals, broken hydraulic fluid lines, ruptured banjo bolt seals and more from this wrong technique.

Suffice it to say that this is not how to do this correctly.

Most air in the brake lines comes from opening the bleed valve too much and allowing air past the threads of the bleed valve.

It is also caused by not having either continuous pressure from the lever or continuous vacuum being pulled on the bleed valve, before you open it up very slightly to allow the fluid to be forced through the tube under pressure, and the air along with it.

Yes, there are people who will say they do this zip tie on the brake lever with no problem. YMMV.

I have a long list of people who will tell you that it was an expensive mistake. My bank account thanks them!
 
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I am not a modern bike technician. I do all services on my stuff ( even tire replacement) as I don't trust my life to someone I am not watching work. This brake bleeding subject IS something I have had a lot of experience with. The technique I have used for many decades is similar but with a couple noticeable differences. After refilling the master cylinder have a zip tie ready adjusted to hold the brake lever approximately half pull. Pull the brake lever back and as it goes forward slide your zip tie to hold it in the halfway position. Now sit your master cylinder in a a cantered forward position. This puts the pump in the fluid return position. Let it sit overnight. Now pull the lever and crack the banjo on the MC slightly. This has worked for me quite well. I do not see it working with lever at full pull BUT I have never tried it that way.
 
I bleed brakes on motorcycles of every marque literally every other day or so.

I have never needed this “zip tie” method. It’s not the way you do this as I wrote above.

I certainly never “crack open” the banjo bolt on the master cylinder. That is just beyond bizarre and one would be very hard-pressed to explain the rational for this.

The process of bleeding brakes is very simple. It’s not magic. It’s engineering. All you are doing is ensuring that brake fluid fills the entire brake line with no trapped air. Air can be compressed and gives that spongy feeling in the lever. Brake fluid cannot be compressed, and when all air is purged from the line, the lever feels solid and firm.

So to do this:

1. Open master cylinder cap.

2. Using plastic syringe, I remove all contaminated fluid from the reservoir.

3. I utilize 3-4 cotton swabs held together to pat against the reservoir bottom and absorb any remaining debris or contaminants from inside the master cylinder reservoir, and I also gently swab out the master cylinder sight glass from inside the master cylinder with 1 single cotton swab because brown contamination usually is stuck on the inside of the sight glass window. (When you pull out the swab, you will see the brown or black debris on it which has been wiped from the inside of the sight glass window)

4. I remove all previous fluid from the master cylinder by patting these cotton swabs to absorb the fluid, HOWEVER be sure that you do not snag the cotton swabs in anything inside the reservoir, just pat them like a mop to absorb the contaminated fluid, and NEVER touch the brake lever with the reservoir empty! You can safely empty the reservoir to near dry condition by just patting the cotton swabs on the fluid at the bottom of the reservoir, so long as you do not touch the lever. This leaves the line full of fluid but no air enters!

5. Refill master cylinder with clean, fresh brake fluid. The reservoir will now be full of fluid that is absolutely clear in color.

5. I attach a long clear (~ 2.5’ length) tubing to the bleed screw by simply sliding it tightly over the nipple. The other end is inside of my waste fluid catch bottle. It does not need to be under brake fluid or anything like that. (We will observe a continuous flow of brake fluid through this tubing in a moment).

6. Crack open the bleed valve by turning counterclockwise with your wrench just to the point where you feel the screw break loose, then turn it back every so gently clockwise to just reseat it back closed but not tight.

6. Gently squeeze the brake lever a few times to establish a solid working pressure and while holding the brake lever in, turn your bleed screw back counterclockwise very slowly and ever so slightly until the lever begins to slowly and smoothly move inward, thereby expelling the brake fluid under pressure. The opening of the bleed valve is such that the resistance you are looking for in the hydraulic line when under pressure from the lever, is one of being slightly resistant but not free flowing. The lever should be collapsing slowly and uniformly as the fluid is pushed out the bleed nipple.

7. Once you find this point in the bleed valve, it then becomes a simple matter. With the bleed valve still in this slightly cracked open position, I continue to squeeze the brake lever smoothly and uniformly while observing the continuous stream of old brake fluid now passing through my plastic tubing. There will be no air bubbles anywhere. Just a smooth continuous line of brake fluid, passing through the tubing. (Do not let the master cylinder go empty!)

8. As the master cylinder begins to empty, I refill it again with fresh brake fluid and continue this bleeding process for 3 refills of the master cylinder. This ensures that all previous old fluid and any contaminants are pushed out the brake line and out the bleed nipple.

9. As I get through the 3rd refill of fresh brake fluid in the master cylinder, while gently and smoothly squeezing the brake lever, I close the bleed valve completely and snugly with my wrench. (Don’t crush it, just closed and a little more to tighten.). Upon squeezing the lever again a few times, you will find the pressure and resistance in the line to be very solid and firm. The line from the master cylinder to the bleed screw, is now full of nothing but fresh clean brake fluid.

10. Repeat the same process for each individual brake caliper attached to the master cylinder. (1 or 2 in the front). 1 in the rear (attached to the other master cylinder fluid reservoir).

I can do this process by myself without issue. Some people use an assistant and that is fine but unnecessary.

The secret here is tuning your amount of opening the bleed screw so that the fluid that is pushed out of the bleed nipple, is pushed out under light resistance and pressure. You should have to squeeze the lever and pressurize the system to push the fluid out of the line. If the brake lever just immediately and quickly moves all the way through its stroke, then the bleed valve is open too much. If it hardly moves or moves excessively slow, it’s not opened enough. Find the correct opening! You want that continuous but light back-pressure resistance against your squeezing of the brake lever. We want to expel the fluid out under pressure.

The plastic line also visually shows you the fluid being pushed through. You won’t see any bubbles if you have the bleed screw opened correctly. If it is too open, air will enter from the threads area.
 
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Well.... Ive tried 3 different ways to bleed my rear brake. Spent several hours and had zero success.
•Tried the usual way. - caliper still in place
•The "zip tie way" - hooking the caliper at the top of the suspension
•Using a manual pump
All three ways failled.

With my tail between my legs I brought my bike to the local dealer - International Motorsport in Langley BC. After two mechanics spent 2.5hrs on my bike I finally got it back. Rode less than two blocks before returning to the shop complaning about having to pump the brakes and still not having full braking power.

They took the bike back, 3 hrs later i got it back with only marginal improvement. I now have full braking power but my foot is almost vertical due to having to push the pedal so far down.... So im back at pumping the brakes.

It is pretty sad when even the dealer don't know how to bleed the brakes on the bikes they sell.

I never had a bike with ABS and now I am very interested in deleting the ABS systemfrom the V7. Does anyone know if this can be done without having the ABS light come on the guage?
 
I never had a bike with ABS and now I am very interested in deleting the ABS systemfrom the V7. Does anyone know if this can be done without having the ABS light come on the guage?

It is so unfortunate that you have been pushed to thinking this.

Bleeding and setting up brakes to function properly is not rocket science but it does require you understand what is happening, how the components are supposed to function, and how to control the variables.

Your brakes should not be performing like you describe at all.

In answer to your question about the light, the short answer is “No”.
 
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