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Why....?

Seamus MacCallum

Just got it firing!
Joined
Apr 7, 2019
Messages
7
Location
Erfurt
Hello all! I'm new to this obsession of the 'Guzzi and am slowly on my way to owning one. Thus please forgive my ignorance but why is it that the motors in the V7 and V9 produce the relatively low numbers in power that they do? Also why is that one typically has to spend big bucks just get out a few extra ponies and torque? Im just curious! Honestly, I've gotten old enough now that Im happy with the idea that there is enough power to haul my medium to large frame and on occasion plus one around town or on lazy day trips. Is this a characteristic of the engine configuration and how the motors themselves are made? Also, do they have the potential and or the ease of longevity on their side like what I've heard tell of the Beemer boxers? Or is that really just a myth? What would one say really is the strong suit that these motors have and or are intended for besides the character?
All that said, I am pinning away at the thought of getting to know my very own Guzzi! :) Thank you for insights and feedback! I look forward to learning from you all! Safe riding! Cheers!
 
The Guzzi motor, especially the small block in the V7 and V8, is not very advanced or sophisticated. It does not have 4 valves per cylinder, optimized port shapes, high compression, or efficient combustion chamber shapes. So it does not generate a large amount of power. But it can likely run for a long time as it is pretty under-stressed.
Guzzi's do have their quirks, and sometimes they require a bit of fiddling to get them right. But once right they are about as bullet-proof as they come. And that is odd for something Italian.
My best advice is arrange a test ride of a Guzzi, the longer the test ride the better. I find they either speak to you or they don't. If they don't, you should buy something else. But for those that they do speak to there really isn't another bike like it.
I prefer the bigger Guzzi's, but we do have an older small block and it is a great motorcycle. The small block is a little down on power but other than that it is a great option. But if you can find a left over Griso at a good price (I have heard of dealers selling Griso's brand new for the cost of a V7) that might be an option.
 
The Guzzi motor, especially the small block in the V7 and V8, is not very advanced or sophisticated. It does not have 4 valves per cylinder, optimized port shapes, high compression, or efficient combustion chamber shapes. So it does not generate a large amount of power. But it can likely run for a long time as it is pretty under-stressed.
Guzzi's do have their quirks, and sometimes they require a bit of fiddling to get them right. But once right they are about as bullet-proof as they come. And that is odd for something Italian.
My best advice is arrange a test ride of a Guzzi, the longer the test ride the better. I find they either speak to you or they don't. If they don't, you should buy something else. But for those that they do speak to there really isn't another bike like it.
I prefer the bigger Guzzi's, but we do have an older small block and it is a great motorcycle. The small block is a little down on power but other than that it is a great option. But if you can find a left over Griso at a good price (I have heard of dealers selling Griso's brand new for the cost of a V7) that might be an option.
Thank you for the response! With that said what are the Griso's like? I always thought they were a beautiful bike but why have they decided to stop selling them or upgrading them for that matter? Are they easy to ride?
 
As noted above the longer the test ride the better.
Over the years I have heard the same thing over & over again:
"I just don't get what a Guzzi is all about".

Always this comes from somebody who rode one "around the block".

Do at least 50 miles while a 100 is even better.
Ride it long enough so you forget that you don't own the bike, long enough so you no longer think about shifting or braking, long enough were you realize why there is an Eagle on the tank.
 
All I can say to your question is that I own a 1000cc Japanese bike as well as a V7 and I nearly always choose
To ride the guzzi over the 1000cc bike.
Yes the guzzi only has about 50hp and my 1000 has 154Hp but the little V7 has good torque and plenty of speed to
Maybe keep you out of jail.
In my opinion you need pipes ecu flash and upgraded suspension to get the best from this bike once done this bike is heaps of fun.
 
Simply put a Guzzi is the most fun you can have on 2 wheels. I bought my 2017 Anniversario without ever riding a Guzzi before, no test ride or anything. On the advice of a good friend. Best advice ever.
 
Just go as they say: test ride it. Just after having my driving licence, I borrowed the bikes of my friends to understood what type of bike I would like the most: Triumph Street Triple, Kawa Ninja 600, HD Softail, Honda CB Four, Aprilia Caponord, Yamaha XT 500, Moto Guzzi V50C, even a Yamaha T-Max...
Guzzi won easily my heart, I bought an old V65C and never looked back :)
 
Thank you for the response! With that said what are the Griso's like? I always thought they were a beautiful bike but why have they decided to stop selling them or upgrading them for that matter? Are they easy to ride?
The Griso is different things to different people. To me it is the most comfortable motorcycle I own, it is a couch. But to others it is the sportiest motorcycle they own. For me it is the best bike I have for touring, but to others it is the bike for Sunday morning rides in the twisties.
The Griso is bigger and heavier. But it carries its weight really well and while moving it feels like it weighs 100 lbs less than it does.
The motor the Griso uses doesn't meet new emissions regs so it is going away and they did not replace it. But it has been a very popular line for Guzzi for the last 10 years. The only warning about Griso's, and any other 8 valve CARC bikes, is watch out for the early flat tappet versions of the 8 valve CARC motorcycles. CARC refers to the swing arm setup that the Griso, Breva, Norge, and Stelvio, use. The old 2 valve CARC motorcycles that have flat tappets are fine. But Guzzi did apparently screw up on the first attempt at the 8 valve motor for the CARC bikes and they will eat their valve train. But the later roller tappet 8 valve CARC motorcycles are fine and have no issues. Most of the ones originally sold with flat tappets have already been converted, and any 8 valve motors made in 2013 or later are going to be roller tappets and have no issues. And a brand new leftover from 2013 or later would be an awesome choice for a new Guzzi, if it speaks to you.
Again, a long test ride will answer most all your questions.
 
The Griso is different things to different people. To me it is the most comfortable motorcycle I own, it is a couch. But to others it is the sportiest motorcycle they own. For me it is the best bike I have for touring, but to others it is the bike for Sunday morning rides in the twisties.

My Griso (with clip-ons) is not a couch!

My Victory is a comfortable chair.

I have done quite a few 300 mile days on the Grizz & a few 500's as well.

It always takes about 100 miles/tank of gas to settle in and get the body adjusted but the dang thing is just so much fun to ride I totally forget about how comfortable the Vic is.
 
The Guzzi motor, especially the small block in the V7 and V8, is not very advanced or sophisticated. It does not have 4 valves per cylinder, optimized port shapes, high compression, or efficient combustion chamber shapes. So it does not generate a large amount of power. But it can likely run for a long time as it is pretty under-stressed.
...


Um, not really. The same genius (G. Carcano) that designed the Moto Guzzi GP V8 in 1955 designed the V7 motor in the 1960s, and the same genius (L. Tonti) that designed the frame for the Moto Guzzi V7 Sport of 1970-71 also designed the derivative V50 to V7 small block series and the basic frame that most of them have used since 1975... Never look at the simplicity of these engines and say that they are 'not very advanced or sophisticated.' Their sophistication is very high, and their simplicity belies the advanced engineering that they are perfect examples of.

No, (most) do not have four valves per cylinder ... but most do have very well optimized ports, high compression, and very efficient combustion chamber shapes. The difference is, as Moto Guzzi has always been famous for, the intent
behind the engineering: They are designed to be very usable, flexible, reliable, and durable. They are designed to be easily maintainable and to deliver usable power over a broad spectrum rather than be super high output, narrowly focused machines.

The newest generation TT850 engine shows that Moto Guzzi has all of the technology to up the game whenever they want to. Same basic engine as the V7/V9, just exploring through simple, elegant engineering a nice boost in power and responsiveness. And emissions compliance too. The fact that my 2017 V7III Racer has a frame with a 43 year long history of incremental improvement and development, which itself was a lightened, downsized version of the frame designed five years before, means it has all of the wonderful characteristics that a good, ridable, useable motorcycle ought to have. Plus all the modern advantages that have been added as well.

I had Racer out on my first 'longish' day ride of 2019 the other day .. a fine day's wiggle up, down, and through the beautiful twists and turns of the Santa Cruz Mountains. And I kept smiling and giggling in my helmet as I rode: No other motorcycles, old or new, have had such lovely handling and braking, such utterly well-behaved engine response and transmission, as my Moto Guzzis have. And I've owned a lot of different motorcycles over the past forty-five years and close to 1.2 Million miles of riding...

Yes, there are faster, sportier, sharper edged .. as well as more comfy and couch-like ... motorcycles on the road. Few have the all around balance and competence of Moto Guzzis as a riding machine. Not a couch or a chair, or a crotch-rocket, but a machine to ride long distances and at whatever level suits your whim. Just like I could hop on my ancient 850-T or LeMans 1000 V, and go anywhere on a whim, I can do the same on Racer. And do, on regular occasion. That's what's special about these bikes, not long specification sheets with trademarked, branded feature silliness festooned all about. To me, at least... :D

G
 
Um, not really. The same genius (G. Carcano) that designed the Moto Guzzi GP V8 in 1955 designed the V7 motor in the 1960s, and the same genius (L. Tonti) that designed the frame for the Moto Guzzi V7 Sport of 1970-71 also designed the derivative V50 to V7 small block series and the basic frame that most of them have used since 1975... Never look at the simplicity of these engines and say that they are 'not very advanced or sophisticated.' Their sophistication is very high, and their simplicity belies the advanced engineering that they are perfect examples of.

No, (most) do not have four valves per cylinder ... but most do have very well optimized ports, high compression, and very efficient combustion chamber shapes. The difference is, as Moto Guzzi has always been famous for, the intent
behind the engineering: They are designed to be very usable, flexible, reliable, and durable. They are designed to be easily maintainable and to deliver usable power over a broad spectrum rather than be super high output, narrowly focused machines.

The newest generation TT850 engine shows that Moto Guzzi has all of the technology to up the game whenever they want to. Same basic engine as the V7/V9, just exploring through simple, elegant engineering a nice boost in power and responsiveness. And emissions compliance too. The fact that my 2017 V7III Racer has a frame with a 43 year long history of incremental improvement and development, which itself was a lightened, downsized version of the frame designed five years before, means it has all of the wonderful characteristics that a good, ridable, useable motorcycle ought to have. Plus all the modern advantages that have been added as well.

I had Racer out on my first 'longish' day ride of 2019 the other day .. a fine day's wiggle up, down, and through the beautiful twists and turns of the Santa Cruz Mountains. And I kept smiling and giggling in my helmet as I rode: No other motorcycles, old or new, have had such lovely handling and braking, such utterly well-behaved engine response and transmission, as my Moto Guzzis have. And I've owned a lot of different motorcycles over the past forty-five years and close to 1.2 Million miles of riding...

Yes, there are faster, sportier, sharper edged .. as well as more comfy and couch-like ... motorcycles on the road. Few have the all around balance and competence of Moto Guzzis as a riding machine. Not a couch or a chair, or a crotch-rocket, but a machine to ride long distances and at whatever level suits your whim. Just like I could hop on my ancient 850-T or LeMans 1000 V, and go anywhere on a whim, I can do the same on Racer. And do, on regular occasion. That's what's special about these bikes, not long specification sheets with trademarked, branded feature silliness festooned all about. To me, at least... :D

G
That the guy who designed the V7 also designed some other more advanced power plants does not say anything to speak of about the V7.
It is not something to be ashamed of, it is what it is. The V7 motor uses old tech and design. That leaves it where it is. It works well enough for its current use, but it will never be more than it is. It lacks the ability to flow enough air to make serious power. Adding 4 valve per cylinder heads helps a lot. The one small block I have has them. But it is still an old school motor with old school power and efficiency.
 
My Griso (with clip-ons) is not a couch!

My Victory is a comfortable chair.

I have done quite a few 300 mile days on the Grizz & a few 500's as well.

It always takes about 100 miles/tank of gas to settle in and get the body adjusted but the dang thing is just so much fun to ride I totally forget about how comfortable the Vic is.
Yep, that is why I say it is different things to different people. I do not own a more comfortable motorcycle than my Griso. But I am sure there are more comfortable motorcycles out there.
My Daytona is close to the same comfort level, but that is after a lot of work went into making the Daytona more comfortable.
 
That the guy who designed the V7 also designed some other more advanced power plants does not say anything to speak of about the V7.
It is not something to be ashamed of, it is what it is. The V7 motor uses old tech and design. That leaves it where it is. It works well enough for its current use, but it will never be more than it is. It lacks the ability to flow enough air to make serious power. Adding 4 valve per cylinder heads helps a lot. The one small block I have has them. But it is still an old school motor with old school power and efficiency.

We must agree to disagree. Just because a motor is "old style" and uses "old tech" does not mean that it isn't an advanced design that meets its design spec beautifully.

The V7III, V9, and new TT850 versions of the small block Guzzi engine have very good hemi-heads, quite different from the older Heron head versions that were designed for low cost of manufacture, not power. They have excellent cylinder filling almost up to the small block quattrovalvola models, maybe even better. More important: they work very very well.
 
We must agree to disagree. Just because a motor is "old style" and uses "old tech" does not mean that it isn't an advanced design that meets its design spec beautifully.

The V7III, V9, and new TT850 versions of the small block Guzzi engine have very good hemi-heads, quite different from the older Heron head versions that were designed for low cost of manufacture, not power. They have excellent cylinder filling almost up to the small block quattrovalvola models, maybe even better. More important: they work very very well.
Sure, we can agree to disagree. But to be clear, even a "hemi-head" is old school tech and even Hemi's don't use them anymore.
None of this is trying to judge the small blocks and isn't trying to be negative. They are fine for what they are. But they aren't a very modern design. They are perhaps better described as modernized, in that they are an old design with some modern improvements. But they still suffer from air flow issues and combustion chamber efficiency is not as good as it could be. But considering how old the design is they do pretty well.
 
You seem to be quite hung up with the "modern", Michael. I don't care whether something is old tech, new tech, modern, or not. I just care whether it works. :D
That is funny. Only someone who hasn't seen my collection of motorcycles could say that.....
Most of the motorcycles my wife and I own are old school. The newest, fanciest, motorcycle my wife owns is a Monster 1100, which is not very high tech. The newest, fanciest, motorcycle I own is an Aprilia RXV, which is fairly fancy and new tech. The Aprilia is the only motorcycle we own with modern head and port designs. Sadly it is in pieces as I am slowly (very slow it seems) building it into a road race bike. I hope I finish the project before I die and before it is no longer modern.
The next most modern motorcycle we own is probably my Guzzi Daytona. That has a fairly modern combustion chamber shape but the port design isn't all that great. But it is my favorite motorcycle I have ever ridden on the street.
No offence meant. Guzzi's are what they are, and as someone who owns four of them I am pretty well aware of their appeal.
 
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