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sudden stop, will not restart

tobinh

tobinh

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Famiglia
Joined
Oct 15, 2016
Messages
423
Location
Coquitlam, BC
well, my trusty B11 has finally requested some attention after thirteen years of loyal service.

as I was riding home, the motor stopped running, but not quite instantly - the rpm dropped quickly, held at a very low rpm, maybe 2000, and would not respond to throttle inputs.

a second or two later it stopped completely, locking the rear tire and would not restart. turns over, sounds healthy, but does not fire.

once I got it home, I checked spark, seems good - very visible, fat spark against a screw in the head while turning over. spark plug itself seemed fine.

then I pulled the fuel line and tried to start again - lots of fuel squirted into my Perrier bottle. seems okay!

then I took the tank off completely, and noticed the heat shield stuff had let go into the air filter! I have Todd's full system, including air box lid with a great big hole in the top, all full of the black plastic backing from this shielding stuff. surely that wouldn't bring the bike to a complete halt tho...

sure enough, no change after cleaning.

I have error codes P0351, P0352 and P0500. both coils and speed sensor failing simultaneously? also, is P0500 even a normal Guzzi code? I can find no reference to this. I cleared the codes, still won't start.

I have been riding without the fuel tank fairing...things. and it has been raining a lot on me lately. the fairing pieces certainly protect the coils, is it possible riding without these covers in the rain caused them to fail? it was dry the day the bike stopped, but I had been out in the rain several times the week previous.

any help greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Tobin.
 
oh I guess 500 is a regular error code. I'll pull the speed sensor and check the resistance. would this failing cause everything else?
 
tobinh said:
I figured... I'm not sure why the codes are showing?

regardless, I shall check the spray pattern tonight.

thanks!
Click to expand...

Can't help you on those codes. How did you read them as they aren't the standard codes the dash displays.
 
well, minor update: dash shows codes; 05, 07 and 08

fuel sensor, oil sensor and oil pressure. all under 'M' - for memory I presume.

I've never had any oil pressure warning lights or signs of any problem in that area. fuel sensor... well, the fuel gauge has been working normally?

I did clear the codes using Todd's flash tool, so perhaps that's why they're not showing now. so I tried starting the bike wondering if they would return, but nothing.

I didn't manage to get the injectors out. I thought it was just a simple matter of undoing the screw and pulling? but they didn't want to budge. are they just very tight? this will be the first time they've been out.

I did notice that the throttle bodies appeared very dirty:

IMG 20200715 201837

so they'll be coming off for a good cleaning. any insight as to why?
 
Throttle bodies get dirty from too much oil in the crankcase. Oil mist collects in the airbox and makes its way to the throttle bodies. An o-ring seals the injector to the throttle bodies so it takes a bit to get them out. Something I should have asked earlier, have you ever replaced the fuel filter? The original ones are half plastic and split. After this many years I thought all the bad filters had been replaced by now.
 
john zibell said:
Throttle bodies get dirty from too much oil in the crankcase. Oil mist collects in the airbox and makes its way to the throttle bodies. An o-ring seals the injector to the throttle bodies so it takes a bit to get them out. Something I should have asked earlier, have you ever replaced the fuel filter? The original ones are half plastic and split. After this many years I thought all the bad filters had been replaced by now.
Click to expand...
thanks so much John!

no, I haven't replaced the fuel filter. I checked it, years ago, and it seemed okay. I thought perhaps because I am very strict about avoiding ethanol blended fuels it would be okay. but I am due for a replacement now due to mileage, so I actually already have one en route. tonight I will pull the filter and check it out.

okay, that makes me feel more confident. I will pull harder on the injectors and test the spray pattern, perhaps with and without the filter.

also, one other thing: a mechanic years ago removed the charcoal canister system from the bike, and because I didn't do it myself I have some hoses that are a bit mysterious to me. where is this supposed to go?

? IMG 20200715 202418 IMG 20200715 202425
 
That looks like the gearbox vent line. I just goes to atmosphere so it is just fine where it is. Since you are going to change the fuel filter, wait on pulling the injectors. Also the fuel filter is in line on the pressure side so if it split, no fuel to injectors. Also you shouldn't try to test for fuel at the injectors without the fuel filter in place, that is don't bridge it. I hope you ordered a new pump assembly gasket with the filter. If not you need to use loctite cleaner on the gasket and I think it is Loctite 518 to treat the gasket so it will seal. Guzzi Steve told me about it several years ago and it works well.
 
john zibell said:
That looks like the gearbox vent line. I just goes to atmosphere so it is just fine where it is. Since you are going to change the fuel filter, wait on pulling the injectors. Also the fuel filter is in line on the pressure side so if it split, no fuel to injectors. Also you shouldn't try to test for fuel at the injectors without the fuel filter in place, that is don't bridge it. I hope you ordered a new pump assembly gasket with the filter. If not you need to use loctite cleaner on the gasket and I think it is Loctite 518 to treat the gasket so it will seal. Guzzi Steve told me about it several years ago and it works well.
Click to expand...
I feel like I owe you several beer ;)

lovely info, I in fact did not order the gasket, so I'll make sure I do that straight away.

while poking around I can see some oil seeping out of what I think is the cam phase sensor, so I'll get that one too... tho I'll avoid disturbing it until I get the thing running properly. no need for any extra variables.

thanks!
 
IMG 20200718 130006

well I was told, but I did not listen. I'm guessing this is the whole issue. apparently these don't survive in ethanol-free fuel either.
 
IMG 20200719 132531

do I need this? can I just run a catch can of some kind instead? I have my whole intake pulled apart and it is not very clean! I'm starting to think having these lines venting into my air box isn't such a great idea.
 
On my Breva I have run a pipe from the outlet on that collector box to a bottle. I have blanked off the inlet to the air box where that pipe use to go, The air box is completely dry and I have no trouble with the throttle bodies gumming up, Ive had it like this for around 70,000Kms.
 
Kevin.NZ said:
On my Breva I have run a pipe from the outlet on that collector box to a bottle. I have blanked off the inlet to the air box where that pipe use to go, The air box is completely dry and I have no trouble with the throttle bodies gumming up, Ive had it like this for around 70,000Kms.
Click to expand...
70k! well, it must be okay then. I'm going to do it, thanks!
 
If you have oil in the airbox then your crankcase is over filled. The Guzzi spec is too much oil, I only put in about 3.5 liters with filter change instead of the 3.9 specification.
 
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