• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

8V Norge or 1400 California For 2 Up Touring

Singlin

Just got it firing!
Joined
Dec 25, 2020
Messages
16
Location
Italy
8V Norge or 1400 California For 2 Up Touring?
I live in the Alps and am looking for a touring bike to cruise around the Alps and beyond with my wife.
I have been looking at the BMW RT 1200, and the California 1400.
I am attracted to the Norge for the ease of doing the servicing.
My wife likes the look of the California 1400.
Any advice would be welcome.
 
Having ridden in the Alps, I would go for the Norge. Next the RT. However, since your wife likes the 1400 and you will be riding 2 up, that could be the deciding factor.
 
The price difference of the Norge might persuade her :D
I have a watercooled Bonneville T100 and she rides 2 up all daz with me on that but we are approaching 60 and anz of the above options would be a huge improvement.
 
Howdy, Singlin.

We have lived in and travelled a bit in Europe, and go there as often as we can (afford it ;)).

We haven’t ridden there is awhile, but here’s a pic of us and our (rented) Breva 1100 on the Passo dello Spluga in 2006.


i-qgNpnd4-M.jpg


Kathi is an accomplished pillion and has many miles on the back of our EV and Norge. The Norge is — by far — her favorite. This more recent pic was taken near our home here at the top of Virginia.


i-8MtLSnJ-M.jpg



My brother — who, as I — has had several Guzzis, traded his Norge for a California Touring, then, within months, traded it back for another Norge. He missed the “nimbleness” of the Norge in the north Georgia mountains. While not the Alps or Dolomites, the Appalachian spine provides lots of technical roads.


i-wqXqkJc-M.jpg


i-2GgfMFh-M.jpg


IMO, having put 80K miles on my Norge, and a few hundred miles on my brother’s 1400, it’s an apple-orange thing. Depends if you prefer Malus or Citrus!

Seriously, I thought the 1400 was a remarkably flickable machine for its “fighting weight.” And, the Norge, especially when ridden two-up, with a full fuel tank, etc., can be a handful and easily dropped when on unsympathetic terrain at parking lot speeds. The 1400 sure seems as if its COG is lower and while heavy, seems less twitchy at stops and low speeds. The 1400’s engine is a sweet things, too, and, again, for its weight, that machine can dance.

Now, if I did any sort of technical riding, the Norge is, IMO, the clear winner. It can run the Autostrada in comfort, then take an exit and mix it up on the switchbacks and twisties.

Maintenance is, as you note, simple on the Norge; unsure about the 1400.

I am an untalented wrench, but do get my hands dirty on all of my Guzzis:


i-n6gfwVk-M.jpg



Oh, be careful on either the Norge or 1400 as they can, while hardly sport bikes, attract the unwanted attention of any bored law-enforcement officers! And, you probably can’t get by in Italy with wearing this here as I do! :giggle:


i-vqvrhhW-M.jpg


i-HPXkmZr-M.jpg


Finally, from here on this First Day of Christmas …

i-qFMsjjt-M.jpg


Buon Natale e Felice Anno Nuovo a tutti dal Moto Grappa, in cima alla Virginia!

Bill
 
Fantastic post Bill!
It's looking more like the Norge now.
Is their a big difference between the 8v and 4v versions?
THeir are not many for sale here second hand.
I will keep my Triumph for solo riding here.
Here is a picture of my bike- 64210856 10219026946614930 5306702561183531008 o Bike profile
 
The 8 valve has a bit more power, but the 4 valve (total) is a bullet proof engine. I consider it easier to maintain the the 8 valve. If you want even easier to maintain, the 1100/1200 Breva/Sport is like a Norge but without all the body work.
 
Is the passenger comfort on the Breva tha same as the Norge?
Thanks.

Well, good morning to all.

We have 13 grandkids on both coasts. Thus Christmas, while not so wearing on us as for the parents of the hatchlings, is a day of live videos across several time zones. Kathi likes to say that the Grands are her hobby; mine is Guzzis. At this time of year, hers is way more draining in dollars and energy. Prosecco all day and an Old Fashioned (or two ;)) to recover, meant I slept like a rock and am just now sipping my first cup of coffee at 6:30 a.m..

Ah, but that doesn't respond to the OP's inquiry about Brevas v. Norges WRT pillion comfort.

The unhelpful initial "bottom line up front" is yes, pretty much the same. Naturally, there is more.

As you may see in that Splügen Pass -- apologies; I was born a German and very now and then like to play with umlauts :giggle: -- pic in my initial response, we rode a Breva 1100 we rented in Mandello. It was that experience that terrorized me and had Kathi suggesting we should get one to replace our EV when we got back home.

She very much enjoyed the soft ride of the Breva; that same ride was so bouncy that I wanted to scream at every road bump and switchback. Our first day was up and over a couple of passes. I have never really understood -- beyond the grand vistas, of course -- the charm of switchbacks. Going up and down them at flank speed on the straights, then turning the disk brakes into glowing metal at the 180-ish-degree turns is not, IMO, the joy of sinuous valley or ridge roads, but our U.S. Guzzista friends on a rented EV had not been to Europe before and wanted to ride some of the fabled passes.

The next day, we rode over to Lago d’Iseo and that was way more fun. Aside from the roads, I had spent the evening before fiddling with the (easily adjustable) rear shock. What a difference.

Now, as this is already into TLDR length, I'll just say that we bought a Norge as soon as those came to the U.S.

My brother later bought a Breva 1100 and, as he was a returning rider, I put miles on that machine than he did for a bit.

IMO -- and that is an important disclaimer -- both Breva 1100's and early (think 2007) 4v Norges had inadequate rear suspensions. I bought an upgunned rear shock from Todd here at GuzziTech almost after our first ride in the Georgia mountains. Part of that unhappiness with stock was because of my ... erm ... "fighting weight." Kathi is a slip of a thing. I am not. :think:

I understand that later 4v Norges (2008 on) had beefier springs, but the several owners of those that I know also upgraded the rear shocks to better stuff. When the Haven boys at MPH in Houston did some other work on my Norge, they also installed the forks from a 1200 Sport on mine. I have to say -- somewhat embarrassingly -- that I have never been able to tell the difference with those. The rear? A Big Deal.

The B11 has slightly less grunt than the 4v Norges, but I never found it wanting. And, as John Zibell mentioned, the B11 -- with added bags and windscreen (as my brother's had) -- is a very fine tourer. The Sport 1200 the same, but with a more powerful 4v powerplant.

Moreover, the "tupperware" on 4v Norges can be problematic, with owners learning -- aside from colorful cursing -- the various adhesives on the market to bond whatever strange plastic Guzzi used for its body panels. :swear: The 8v cladding is much better.

WRT pillion comfort -- the OP is a wise man :clap: -- I cannot recall if there is an OEM or other top case for the B11. Kathi really likes the top case on the Norge. The side grab rails are just fine, but the cushioned top case also provides some mental reassurance for a passenger. IMO, it's just another place to store the stuff she didn't need to bring but I indulge her as she is a boon companion and a skilled and gifted pillion. :inlove:

Oh, if anyone is still reading, what about the power difference between the 4v and 8v Norges?

First, what John said, i.e., yes, but not as remarkable in his opinion or mine as one might think.

I don't swoon over HP numbers. If folks want to chase that and need to hit 100 mph in second gear with a quarter twist of the throttle, well, they shouldn't be shopping for a Guzzi.

I also have a Griso 1200 with the same engine as in the 8v Norges. As an aside, my brother had THREE 8v Norges! Yes, really. Involved very expensive and painful crashes, ambulance rides to the ER, spiral fractures of a tibia, and more. :(

Anyway, as does John, the firstgen Norge engines are just fine in my book, tho there is a visceral aspect to the 8v that appeals to the Neanderthal in me. ;) Moreover, I have no doubt that the dyno and quarter-mile numbers are better on the 8v Norges, but I have ridden on those and with them on my 4v for thousands of miles and had no trouble keeping up.

OK, enough!

Not sure what is on the used market over there, but I think all the machines we have discussed, including the 1400's, would be fine for you and your bride. Finding the right one in terms of condition and price would, IMO, be more important than which of the models.

No, one more thing. Age. You are "pushing 60." Whippersnapper. I am 73; Kathi is [snip ;)].

I have droned on long enough. I don't even have the energy to reread this all closely. Hope it makes sense.

Bill

P.S. Singling, your Triumph looks great. Have to say that were I not seriously stooopid about Guzzis, I think I'd be a Triumph guy. My Opa rode a German-licensed-&-built Triumph in the 1930's in SW Germany.
 
Thanks Bill and John for the time and passion taken in your replies.
In my region not many people ride bikes at all due to winter being longer than the Summer.
Their is no teenage bike culture like in the rest of Italy.
We get many Italian tourists that come into our region during the summer to ride the big and little st Bernard passes.Most of them seeme to be riding BMWs these days.
I am half Welsh and half Valdostano hence my pick of the Triumph.The number plate on the front fender of my bike was on my Grandfathers bike in the 30s. KG was the Cardiff registration code.
As I like to tinker with my bike and would like a proper Motorcycle and not an Audi on two wheels, I have been drawn the these Guzzies.
As far as I can make out I can shop around and the best deal will be the best choice regardless of 1100 or 1200 etc.
 
Last edited:
Bill;

If you ever write a book about motorcycling I will be the first in line to get a signed copy. Your writing is very, very enjoyable. Reminds me of a different Egan who was a wonderful rider and writer.
 
Same seats and suspension as the 4 valve Norge. I don't know to the 8 valve is any different but I suspect not.
The seat of the 8V is 1cm higher than the 2V, and the handle bars are different . Roughly, on my 2 X norge 2V, I'v installed a handlebar riser, and it's not necessary on the 8V . Also the fairing is more convenient and reliable on the 8V for maintenance and access to the absorber .
The dash board is higher on the 8V, and therefore, more readable . Some small differences on the shock absorber and the fork spring more strong on 8V, but however, you have to replace the shock absorber if you ride with your wife for more confort on both bikes.
Also, the windshields are différent, and, finally, I prefer the 2V shield .
Concerning the engine, it's not very easy to define : in fact, the 8V is more powerful at high revolution, but the 2V is much more pleasant at low rev , mainly if you change the map, that I'v done .
The 2V is very very reliable, as you know the 8V had some issues, and if you buy a 8V, you have to check if the bike as the roller taps .
It's absolutely necessary .
But, comparing with the 1400 California touring, that I have now, the norge is much more confortable , due to a very good seat, a very good damping , because the travel of the rear shock absorber is 110 mm on the 1400 cal, and it's 140mm with a mono shock on the norge . The fork, also, is smoother on the norge .
Finally, both bikes are completely different and very nice and efficient, but the confort is better on the norge . The 1400 engine is very efficient at low rev . The Norge 2V or 8V are easier to ride, of course due to their lower weight, and riding position .
But I love my 1400 Cali :))
Vizir
 
Last edited:
Bill;

If you ever write a book about motorcycling I will be the first in line to get a signed copy. Your writing is very, very enjoyable. Reminds me of a different Egan who was a wonderful rider and writer.

You are kind. Peter Egan is an engaging writer. I have his books, and saw in what was, sadly, the last print issue of Cycle World, his latest essay, a reprise of a 1979 Honda Cub and pedal-bike ride. Charming.

I think, however, that I am more of a fan of Kevin Cameron, who can make me think I understand the mechanical functions he describes. My favorite piece of his (that I think I mentioned here some years ago) used trumpeter Alison Balsam's lungs -- and I do mean her respiratory organ, not "those" (which are, IMO, notable, too :clap:) -- to explain how an engine works. See http://www.cycleworld.com/2015/02/13/ask-kevin-why-all-that-wasted-sound-energy-in-motogp-racing/.

The seat of the 8V is 1cm higher than the 2V, and the handle bars are different . Roughly, on my 2 X norge 2V, I'v installed a handlebar riser, and it's not necessary on the 8V . Also the fairing is more convenient and reliable on the 8V for maintenance and access to the absorber .
The dash board is higher on the 8V, and therefore, more readable . Some small differences on the shock absorber and the fork spring more strong on 8V, but however, you have to replace the shock absorber if you ride with your wife for more confort on both bikes.
Also, the windshields are différent, and, finally, I prefer the 2V shield .
Concerning the engine, it's not very easy to define : in fact, the 8V is more powerful at high revolution, but the 2V is much more pleasant at low rev , mainly if you change the map, that I'v done .
The 2V is very very reliable, as you know the 8V had some issues, and if you buy a 8V, you have to check if the bike as the roller taps .
It's absolutely necessary .
But, comparing with the 1400 California touring, that I have now, the norge is much more confortable , due to a very good seat, a very good damping , because the travel of the rear shock absorber is 110 mm on the 1400 cal, and it's 140mm with a mono shock on the norge . The fork, also, is smoother on the norge .
Finally, both bikes are completely different and very nice and efficient, but the confort is better on the norge . The 1400 engine is very efficient at low rev . The Norge 2V or 8V are easier to ride, of course due to their lower weight, and riding position .
But I love my 1400 Cali :))
Vizir

All well said, Vizir!

I am embarrassed that I neglected to mention the whole flattie-roller fiasco. Singlin, if you find the perfect 8v Norge, make sure it really is. Lot$ of chatter here about it.

Oh, Vizir, I will ignore your baiting me over the 4V v. 8V v. 2 X norge 2V v. Etc. :giggle:

Bill
 
Last edited:
I came across the flattie roller problem today whilst browsing the net.
I think thet the V4 Norge is more appealing to me due to the fact that it seems less complicated in more than one way.
Are their any custom mapsfor the V4 and if so what changes do they give?
Regards,
Simon
www.lesrochers.com
 
Has anyone made a diy engine heat guard for the 4V Norge, To prevent heat on the legs?
The sesrch function is not working for me on this forum.
Thanks.
 
Has anyone made a diy engine heat guard for the 4V Norge, To prevent heat on the legs?
The sesrch function is not working for me on this forum.
Thanks.
My wife has a Norge 8V and I a Breva 1100 (Yes, my wife's is bigger than mine.......Insert jokes here). Having used hers from time to time when I wanted some cold weather protection on trips and she was not wanting to go out, I find the heat is well handled by the body design. Mine used to be almost unbearable in anything above 20C, then I did the full mods offered from this site. Heat is no longer an issue on mine and never was on the Norge 8V. What I see as the main differences between the factory 4V and 8V are that the 8V has more power and a smother delivery. That being said, Todd's mods have made mine a fantastic power plant that I prefer over the factory 8V.
 
Back
Top