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CARC Output seal leak

NPS

Cruisin' Guzzisti
GT Contributor
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
262
Location
Churchdown, Gloucester, UK
I saw there was a recent post on the input seal hence my title.
Just replaced the large seal where the wheel bolts on. It started to drip and the oil got flung around the wheel rim and disk brake. Here in the UK I got one from Moto Mecca at about £45. Its easy to get out with a flat blade screwdriver as a lever. I drained the oil (not in that order though) and cleaned up before carefully drifting the new seal home.

My question is, do these go often or is mine a one off?. There is the slightest of movement in the bearing but not sure that is the cause. Slightest dont mean much so I will say normal movement!

Thanks
Nigel
 
There should be NO detectable movement in the bearing.

In EVERY case I've seen of a failed seal it has been because the big bearing has failed.

Even if your bike doesn't fall within the VIN range for the 'Bad' FET bearings doesn't mean it hasn't got one in, My 1100 Griso was outside the range but it had one in that failed.

If it is the bearing the seal will fail again soon but I would suggest that the risk of particulate matter doing serious damage to the CARC would make stripping it and inspecting at the very least a sensible option. A new CARC costs THOUSANDS of dollars, a new baeing costs $150.

Your call, but I know what I'd do.....

Pete
 
The CARC on my 2005 Breva still seems OK, I've not got any play in the bearings. However this CARC failure issue seems to pop up quite regular here, I've got to say it the only thing about the Breva which really scares me. Spending thousands on a new one takes away the point of a shaft drive. How many chains could you buy for the price of a CARC.
 
Joe

There's no doubt about it that the CARC on the Breva's has been a troublesome component, due almost entirely to Guzzi fitting a poor quality large bearing on the axleshaft. While there have been failures, there are thousands more which haven't been a problem. Knowing that there is potention for a bearing problem, I'd recommend the following - which is what I do even though the bearings and seal in my CARC have been replaced with quality items.

If your CARC hasn't been replaced under recall, have it done, or at least fit the thrower disc issued under the recall to protect the oilseal better. Even after the warranty period the recall can still be required. If that black disc isn't fitted over the oilseal, it's likely that the recall hasn't been carried out.

Check regularly for oil leaks, especially leaks from the wheel-side large oilseal. Any leakage is a bad omen of oncoming bearing failure.

Check the CARC oil level occasionally.

Change the CARC oil every 10,000km or every year - whichever comes first - and note any swarf on the magnet of the drain plug. A lot of swarf spells bearing trouble.

Check regularly for play in the axleshaft bearings. Rear wheel off the ground - hold tyre top and bottom and try to rock the wheel. There should be NO tangible play.

If leakage or bearing play is felt on a recalled CARC, PAY to have the large bearing and oilseal replaced ASAP. As Pete said, a failed CARC out of warranty will cost a LOT more.
 
Thanks for the information.

When I thought there was some movement in the bearing and I thought it was small was because before removing the old oil seal I applied pressure to the output boss top and bottom with my thumbs. I could see the oil film between the seal and the boss move slightly as I applied pressure alternately top and bottom. With the wheel on I have detectected no movement at all.

I do appreceiate that I damaged seal can only really be a bearing so I will continue to monitor the situation.

I have very clean oil as I replace it every 6k miles and only a very slight trace of gray stuff on the magnetic plug.

If I decide to replace the bearing, should I sorce one from Guzzi dealer or some other supplier. If the latter is there bearing numbers or dimensions so I can match it up?

ps. It has the thrower ring fitted.

Thanks for your help
Nigel
 
When my Norge was in, we checked it against a brand new model. Surprise, there was detectable play in the new rear wheel. Not the same as mine in that it was all round, mine was only top to bottom (and you had to lift the wheel to feel it).
 
Thanks Graham

I had the recall done some time ago and already change all the oils on every service.
I’m now making checking for bearing play and checking the oil level a part of my regular routine.

Cheers
JB
 
This is a very similar problem enjoyed by many BMW R1150 owners. Rear bevel drive bearings and seals in the 'paralever' have on occassions failed. Mileages vary considerably when the problem occurs, but mainly seems to be anywhere between 10k and 50k. There is much debate on the cause, perhaps defective bearings, but I'm wondering if it is related to side loading stress of the bearing due to the single sided swing arm as used by both Moto Guzzi and BMW. :huh:
 
Not really the same issue it seems. A lot of CARC bikes are now well up in miles and apart from the ones that had a poor quality bearing installed failures seem to be rare whereas with the BMW system failures are ten a penny.

Pete
 
NPS wrote:
It started to drip and the oil got flung around the wheel rim....
Thanks
Nigel

Did it look like this? Just saw this today on my '07 Norge.....
DSC08449.jpg
 
Took the wheel out, and thankfully no leaks!
It seems to originate from the black overflow hose(next to the clear one)that is under the single sided arm/carc. Checked the fluid level in the rear and it is OK. I have no idea what that overflow hose is from. Checked the service manual and was unable to find out. Will give it a another try later on today
 
The two hoses clipped to the underside are a battery tray drain, and the fuel tank overflow/filler recess drain, on my Norge.
Maybe the US models differ with the beautiful additional cannister.
 
Nick;

Tab 53 of the parts manual shows a hose coming out of the top of the transmission (Guzzi calls every hose a "fuel pipe") I belive that is the pressure relief for the trans, it's a one way valve in the trans and it may be doing it's job. Have you had or serviced the trans latley ? a little too much gear oil.
 
Does the bearing have to come through Guzzi source or can quality bearing manufacturer be used?
Checked with FAG Europe and regretfully 61917 not in their catalogue so asked by size
85x120x18

Seal 85x110x10 although Breva parts book says 85x110x8 BASL (whoever that is)

also bearing 30x62x16 is on the non wheel side of the assembly.

any comments appreciated
 
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