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V85 Oil Consumption

Oldman

Tuned and Synch'ed
GT Contributor
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
72
Location
Sanlucar de Guadiana Spain
I am looking to buy a second hand V85, a euro 4 I think since I test rode a euro 5 and found the bike very jerky in the closed loop part of its map. I am in Spain so not too much choice around. I have found one candidate but the owner complained on social media (obviously not to me a prospective buyer) about oil consumption. What do you riders regard as normal for a V85? I will obviously pull the plugs and try to see any obvious signs of oil burning but is a leak down test advised and, silly non wrench person question is this the same as a compression test? Thanks for any tips.
 
Guzzi engines are over full when oil is at the full mark. The engine will push out oil to seek its own level. If the owner kept topping off the oil to the full mark, then that would be a possibility. If you do get this bike check the airbox for excess oil.
 
T
Guzzi engines are over full when oil is at the full mark. The engine will push out oil to seek its own level. If the owner kept topping off the oil to the full mark, then that would be a possibility. If you do get this bike check the airbox for excess oil.
Thanks. I understand that....though mystified why such a simple thing as oil level and how to read the dip stick is such a drama for Moto Guzzi! I will look at the air box but the guy who owns it is very experienced so I doubt this is the issue.
 
Even at 20,000 miles mine uses about 3 ounces every 1000 miles. No, It's not overfilled. You do have to follow the drive it 5-10 miles or more rule, have it up right then check in about ten minutes after it has settled. The new sump design requires this. FYI, it is a sight glass.
 
…What do you riders regard as normal for a V85?

I will obviously pull the plugs and try to see any obvious signs of oil burning but is a leak down test advised and, silly non wrench person question is this the same as a compression test?

Thanks for any tips.

Every manufacturer will tell you that consumption of up to 1L per 1000 miles (~1600 km) is within tolerance limits, however this would really be not good at all to me.

Unfortunately most motorcycles burn oil when they were broke in incorrectly, by being too gentle on the motor. The piston rings never seated fully and unfortunately it will burn oil forever.

You only have so long on an engine in which to get the rings beaded in and fully seated. Wait to long and they fix in their position and never fully seat.

Pulling the plugs is a waste of time here. They won’t tell you anything useful.

Leak down is a pressurization of the combustion chamber with compressed air (say 100 psi) while the piston is at top dead center, which is then read on one gauge, followed by a time interval where you read another gauge connected to the spark plug hole to see the decline in this known pressure due to worn rings and/or valves. This test is more informative than a compression test which allows multiple variables being introduced into the mix; i.e. battery condition, starter condition, any other item affecting the cranking of the engine.

Compression test is a reading taken under cranking of the engine to see what is the maximum pressure you can build up in the combustion chamber from the piston.

Both test are used to test top end functionality and condition.
 
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T

Thanks. I understand that....though mystified why such a simple thing as oil level and how to read the dip stick is such a drama for Moto Guzzi!

My 2010 V7 Cafe requires that the engine oil be hot and the dip stick inserted without screwing it into its receptacle. The problem is that small changes in the angle of the dipstick result in large changes in the apparent oil level. When you simply shove the dipstick in without engaging the threads it's all too easy to cock the dipstick, resulting in a bogus oil level reading. So checking the oil seems a simple task, but it can be a bit tricky on those Guzzis that don't permit threading the dipstick when checking the oil level.

If you do decide to have a closer look at this bike and decide to pull a spark plug, look for oily/wet threads, which is a sure sign of an oil burner.

Jason
 
Th
Even at 20,000 miles mine uses about 3 ounces every 1000 miles. No, It's not overfilled. You do have to follow the drive it 5-10 miles or more rule, have it up right then check in about ten minutes after it has settled. The new sump design requires this. FYI, it is a sight glass.
Thanks Vagrant, that is exactly what I would anticipate as normal
 
I should have added from top to bottom of that sight glass might be 6-8 ounces so he might think it uses more than it does. Especially if he just pours more in without measuring it. It would be the last thing I would worry about.
 
Hate to dredge up an old thread, but I am still puzzled by the oil level check procedure on the Guzzi V85tt. The manual says that I should drive for 10 miles, then park on both wheels (no center stand) and check the level with the bike upright. It’s stated in this thread that I should wait 10 minutes before checking the level, but I don’t see that in the manual. The “ten minute” thing makes a huge difference - if I check the level immediately after parking, it’s below the site gauge. Ten minutes later it’s at the max mark. Five minutes after parking it’s somewhere in between.

So - when do you check? And what’s the source of the ten minute rule? I’ve changed motorcycle oil hundreds of times over 50 years of riding, and I’ve always done it when the motor has rested a few minutes and the oil has drained back into the sump. I don’t see why this motor should be any different.
 
if I check the level immediately after parking, it’s below the site gauge. Ten minutes later it’s at the max mark. Five minutes after parking it’s somewhere in between.
Think about what you have observed and written about here.

Why is this?

Because oil is up in the engine and it takes time to bleed back down into the sump…wait the 10 minutes.

The absolutely WORST thing you can do to a Moto Guzzi motorcycle, is OVERFILL the crankcase. You raise the internal pressure exponentially and risk blowing oil right by the rear main seal and onto your clutch pack.

Bottom of the sight glass is MINIMUM, top is ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM.

Do not chase the maximum level mark! Never.

The perfect spot is between 1/3 to 1/2 up the sight glass MAXIMUM.

This will prevent overfilling, the issue with blowing rear main seals and also, you will not suck up oil into your air box which creates a host of problems of it’s own.

Bottom line is if you can see oil level anywhere in the sight glass, you are FINE. Remember, 1/3 to 1/2 the way up.
 
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FWIW, I put mine on the center stand while it idles after riding, then turn it off and watch the oil come up in the sight glass. If the engine is really warm (most of the time in my climate), then the oil drains back to the sump fairly quickly so accurate measurement can be made after two or three minutes (most of the oil will drain back within a minute, but level in sight glass will continue to increase for a little longer). If the oil is not really warm, it will take longer to drain back to the sump--hence the "10-minute rule" in several threads here. I know the owner manual says to have both wheels on the ground with the bike vertical, but I use the center stand with the front wheel on the ground to make sure I get consistent level readings. Also, the sight glass is full when the bike has been parked on the center stand for several hours so I don't see much difference between checking before starting the engine vs. after running and parked for 10 minutes.

I go against the general advice here and keep my V85TT filled to the upper mark beside the sight glass (never above--always want to see daylight at the top of the sight glass). I have not yet found oil in the air box (there is a clear plastic cap at the bottom of the air box near the crankcase vent line that the oil will collect in), but my riding trips are usually long enough to fully warm up the engine and include some full throttle acceleration so perhaps oil vapor has less opportunity to collect. I should also note that 10 minutes of running after a cold start is not long enough (even in my climate) to get the oil warm enough to drain back quickly so it is hard to get accurate level measurements using the procedure in the owner manual.

Regarding the bike you are looking at: The former owner may be inadvertently overfilling it if they check the oil without having the engine fully warmed up or don't wait long enough for the oil to drain back.
 
GerryAZ has an excellent point and I am not concerned that he chases the upper limit because he obviously is fastidious about it and not just pouring oil into the engine all willy-nilly.

One thing that I will mention that I see time and again, is that in most motorcycles with a sight glass, the difference in oil from the bottom of the sight glass to the top, is usually around no more than 400cc even in the largest engines, so if you are 1/2 to 1/3 up the glass, you are most likely about 150-250cc less than Maximum. In the grand scheme of things, this is insignificant and cheap "insurance" against overfilling problems.

Todd will tell you the same thing I'm pretty sure as he has said these exact same thing and his GTM motorcycles squeeze out every ounce of go power and then some.

Better 200cc from the top than 200cc over filled. Remember, if the air space in the crankcase is taken up by a liquid, the pressure of the internal space, rises. Too much pressure and it has to go someplace, and that someplace is not where you want it to go.
 
The V85 is not the same old wet sump engine with the 1900's designed breather system. It takes the 10 minutes to drain back down when hot, and level is always how you check. No CC, stick a board under the side stand just don't push it over to the opposite side and crash it.
The breather system is totally different and not at all as susceptible to over filling like the earlier bikes. In fact, it seems to care less if over filled!
 
My question arises from the language of the manual.

On every wet-sump engine I’ve ever worked on, the oil was checked the same way: (1) allow oil to drain back to sump (2) read level on dipstick or sight glass. This is about as simple as any piece of maintenance ever gets.

From the language of the V85 manual, though, Guzzi doesn’t want the oil checked this way. From the “ride it for ten minutes” language, it seems that they want the oil checked BEFORE all the oil drains back to the sump. My question is, why? What’s different about the V85 motor? And since the amount of drainback is a function of time, doesn’t the manual need to say “read level immediately” or “read after ten minutes”, or whatever?

This doesn’t compare to the explanation in the Centauro manual of how to set cam timing, but it’s sure not clear.
 
I've always let it sit for a bit before checking. It seems to me that if you check it immediately after shutting off the engine, it will be hard to get a good reading as the oil will be actively settling into the sump, so the level will be in flux at that point.

However, I never totally understood the need to warm the engine up first before checking - although I usually do. One of these days, I'm going to do a check and compare readings on a stone cold engine vs hot. As long as it has enough time to settle before checking, I'm not sure why hot/cold would be dramatically different, as long as the oil is warm enough to actually flow. Maybe if you were on an arctic expedition with the bike, it becomes a problem checking while cold?

__Jason
 
This is exactly why I installed an oil pressure gauge on my V7 III Stone. Most Guzzi's consume some oil but should not be excessive. If you are consuming excessive oil your rings are not seated properly or Valve seals/guides are bad.
 
Just an FYI to those reading this. The small block motor is a dry sump engine, so any "drain" time is minimal. The oil "pan" is essentially an oil tank. it is separated from the crankshaft that was the norm on the big block engine.
It would be interesting to see notes on cold vs. hot oil levels.
 
Can someone tell me how to check the oil level. I looked at the sight glass, see the photo and advise. Thanks
 

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The oil is at the low end of the normal range (assuming the bike is on the center stand or being held vertical (not on the side stand). There are two white marks on the case near the sight glass (on the side toward the rear wheel) that show the upper and lower limits. The red oil visible in the window is in line with the bottom mark so it is OK, but don't let it get much lower.
 
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