• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

Dreaded Tonti Weave

Theres no reason you cant poke the fork tubes through 20 or 25mm to sharpen the steering a little more.
I would put a cable tie snugly around one fork leg and push it down to the slider.
This will tell how much tavel you are using because its best not to bottom out,especially while braking.
Push the cable tie back down before each ride.If you have some travel left after each ride,then alls well.
I had mine poked through 25mm for a while,but after one ride,my O ring(cable tie) was topped out so i returned it to 20mm.
Ironically i usually have between 10-20mm of travel left after each ride so i could put it back to 25mm now with confidence.
What Avon Radials are you using?
I would recommend atleast 36psi front and 42-44 rear for better stability.My pressures dropped a bit after a few months and i felt a little weave reappear.
I will check out the Bridgy A40
Cheers
Please let me know how you rate the handling of the Radials compared to cross plys.
 
Last edited:
I am using the Storms xm. I had them on my Triumph and loved them. They now have a 15000 mi warranty and since I do a lot of touring that was a factor. I love them so far but that could be that new tire euphoria. Technically the rear is too large for my rim (should be 4") but the Triumph dealer accidentally put a to large rear on my old bike. They convinced me it would be all right (of course they would) and it was. I put 8000 on it with no problems so thought this time would be fine too. That is why I thought about the A40 though but decided to go with the matched set.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I put new shinko 712 tires on the bike yesterday and the gentleman that balanced them really took his time and used spoke weights to dial the wheels / tires in. I notice quite a bit of front end bounce around an indicated 45mph, it's almost like the suspension and the frame have a resonance that's set off by an initial bump. I feel like it's probably related to what I'm feeling in the corners. The bike has some sort of Ohlins rear shocks and the forks are Forking by Frank parts with new FAC dampers and Wirth springs. I don't know what the exact parts used in the front are as I didn't build the bike. The gentleman that had it before me was probably about 20 lbs heavier than I based on his photo.

I'll start to check some of the other things pointed out in the earlier post, and I appreciate the feedback. I thought that the straight line bounce might help diagnose the issue further so I went ahead and posted it today.

Have a great weekend.
 
Either the front or rear is too stiff. Are the forks over filled with oil giving you a compressed air type of spring action? Oil in the forks of a T3 are only for slider lubrication. Originally an ATF was called for, however a good 5-30 weight synthetic engine oil works well to lubricate the slider. Each leg should only have about 70cc of oil. As to the rear shocks, a suspension shop would need to evaluate them.
 
Hi guys, I'm a newbie here and to the world of moto guzzi.
I recently got a 1998 california special here in Australia with nearly 100,000 kms and what I believe is still the original suspension.
The rear shocks are completely buggered and any playing with fork rebound/compression adjustment yields no difference at all.
I'm not the best at this interweb thing and my searching for which way to go with it has left me more baffled than I was.
Living now in the mountains of Victoria I value handling well over power/performance, but budget does restrict me.
I plan to strip inspect and clean the forks and add new springs.
Are linear or progressive springs the way to go ?
What weight oil would you recommend as a starting point ?
I've got it in my head I want to raise the rear a bit, but have read and heard conflicting advise on this.
Is this a good or bad idea ?
My shocks measure 340mm eye to eye on the bike, and from Ikons website some of the later californias are 360mm.
If it is a fair idea to raise the rear how far can you go before running into trouble with the driveshaft ?
Would this give similar results to lowering the forks through the trees ?
The more ground clearance I can keep the better as there are also a lot of gravel and fire roads around here as well.
I'm sorry if too many questions in one go, next choice of rear shocks ? Within an $800 AUD ($600 US) budget.
Ikon are based quite near to me, although i put some of there budget shocks on a kwack w650 i had and even after they finally put the correct spring on I was never overly impressed with them. Although I would be looking at there next step up, 7610 with rebound adjustment.
Gazi, allegedly designed for Australian conditions and can have height adjusters. But, I have seen old posts on here mentioning them, but nothing more recently and they dont seem to be available from Guzzitech anymore. Are they any good ? Why stop selling them ?
Any other suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanx in advance for any help
All the best
Rich
 
Hi Rich,
You cant be too far from me and where i do most of my riding.
I have a Cali 1100 and like you,handleing is high on my priority list.
Here is my experience,
Forks
I had my non adjustable Stone forks rebuilt by Promecha and they did the following.
1 Fitted cartridre emulator valves and modified the inner tubes by drilling the rebound holes larger.
2 Checked the spring rate and said they should be fine at 0.85 kg.Which they are.Your linea springs should be fine.I would avoid progressive springs.
New seals and oil of course.
This makes a huge difference to the front end.Much more controlled damping.
Slide your forks through the clamps by 20-25.
I ended using 25 weight oil(inplace of the 10 weight,i think, used)to dial it into my liking.
You could purchase the cartridge valve emulators and do it yourself.
But iam not sure how the adjustable damping forks would work.
My guess would be the adjustable valve would be redundant and could be removed as the valve emulators would now have full control of the rebound function.

Shocks
Mine came with near new Ikon 7610 shocks(std length) and performed reasonable well solo but bottomed out when riding hard two up or with gear.
I purcharsed a firmer set of springs from Ikon(just up the road from me too) which stopped the bottoming two up but were too hard when solo.
So i bit the bullet and bought some Hagon Nitro shocks.360mm long.
These are a step above the Ikons,Imo,being nitrogen charged and having more sophisticated damping.But they do feel quite firm in the compression damping.Great for high speed fun but a little firm for general riding.
They work very well two up so i am very happy with them.

Sorting out the suspension really improves the handleing and feel.
Yes,raising the rear by 20 mm will give the same result as dropping the front by 20mm.
Dropping the front by 20mm and raising the rear by 20mm makes the big girl even more nimble.
No hint of headshake and no steering damper required.If yours has one fitted i would recommend throwing it at the neighbours cat!

But to make her handle properly you really need radial tyres(if you havnt already) to go with the suspension mods.
Radials really improve stability.The faster you go,the bigger the improvement.

A front radial improves steering,making the initial turn in much lighter,more accurate and added stability.
It gives me much more confidence to push the front tyre into corners and under brakes unlike all the cross plys i have tried and more traction.

A rear radial will improve frame stability or the dreaded Tonti weave at higher speeds,last longer and have more grip.

Ground clearance is not a major concern when riding reasonably upright on gravel roads however it soon becomes apparent when leaning over on the bitumen.
Pegs,centre and sidestand and even mufflers can be ground away quite easily when leant over on the bitumen.
I removed my centre stand,moved the side stand in and fitted some carbon mufflers which i modified for more clearance.

Your bike will no doubt also benefit from new head stem bearings aswell unless they have been renewed in the past few years or 30,000 km,s?
If they are original they will be toast.

I am very happy now with the handling of my stone.

Hope this helps.

Shrek
 
Last edited:
Hi Shrek, thanx for the quick and detailed reply.
1st question, I used to know a Shrek, you don't happen have a second life in the UK as Lucy do you ? :rofl:

Whereabouts are you ? I'm in Porepunkah, near Bright.

I'm guessing any fork work will be out of my budget for now, so may just strip and clean for now. and measure the stock springs.
Does anyone know what the specs are for stock springs ?
And what upgrade options will be for the adjustable stock forks ?

I will check the steering head bearings(allegedly changed in last 12 mths), all chassis bolts and swingarm bearings too.

Where did you get the hagon nitros from ? and how much ? if you dont mind me asking. I've not been in Australia very long and don't know who all the suppliers good or bad are.

As for steering damper, the neighbour doesn't have a cat, any other ideas ?:giggle:

Tyres are Michelin Pilot Active, in 140/80/17 and 110/90/18. But the front hasn't worn well probably due to previous owner not repairing a slow leak.

Finally how do you 'move the sidestand in' ?

All the best
rich
 
Hi Shrek, thanx for the quick and detailed reply.
1st question, I used to know a Shrek, you don't happen have a second life in the UK as Lucy do you ? :rofl:

Whereabouts are you ? I'm in Porepunkah, near Bright.

I'm guessing any fork work will be out of my budget for now, so may just strip and clean for now. and measure the stock springs.
Does anyone know what the specs are for stock springs ?
And what upgrade options will be for the adjustable stock forks ?

I will check the steering head bearings(allegedly changed in last 12 mths), all chassis bolts and swingarm bearings too.

Where did you get the hagon nitros from ? and how much ? if you dont mind me asking. I've not been in Australia very long and don't know who all the suppliers good or bad are.

As for steering damper, the neighbour doesn't have a cat, any other ideas ?:giggle:

Tyres are Michelin Pilot Active, in 140/80/17 and 110/90/18. But the front hasn't worn well probably due to previous owner not repairing a slow leak.

Finally how do you 'move the sidestand in' ?

All the best
rich

Q1 No,but that does remind me about a girl in Bright whose name wasnt Lucy.
I am in Wahgunyah and often pass through Porpunkah on my way over the Tawonga gap to my favorite Falls creek road.

Forks
The std fork springs should be fine.They are good quality linea springs that dont sag.
The main problem is lack of rebound damping or the lack of sophistication in their design.
i would suggest using atleast 20 or 30 weight fork oil which wont make much improvement to the std forks.
The heavier oil may give you a little morre damping but i dont think you can improve their simple design much without spending money on something with shimmed valves.
There are many options to improve the forks,ranging from complete adjustable inserts such as Matrix to the lower budget cartridge emulators.
I dont know of any cheaper improvements for the std adj forks as they are a fairly basic old fashion design.

Hagon Nitros are available from Moose Racing in Euroa.
$850 Au.

Steering dampers work better anywhere else than on your Cali!

Any radial combination will improve handleing and performance over any of the cross plies.

I simply removed the rubber stop to allow the side stand to move in a little more!
You can also move the right peg inwards by about 1" by removing the spacer.
Cornering clearance may become an issue living where you do?

Welcome to the Guzzi fraternity and enjoy tinkering.

Shrek(the other one)
P.s I have a redundant set of near new Ikons if interested.
 
Last edited:
Hi guys, I'm a newbie here and to the world of moto guzzi.
I recently got a 1998 california special here in Australia with nearly 100,000 kms and what I believe is still the original suspension.
The rear shocks are completely buggered and any playing with fork rebound/compression adjustment yields no difference at all.
My shocks measure 340mm eye to eye on the bike, and from Ikons website some of the later californias are 360mm.
If it is a fair idea to raise the rear how far can you go before running into trouble with the driveshaft ?
Would this give similar results to lowering the forks through the trees ?
I'm sorry if too many questions in one go, next choice of rear shocks ? Within an $800 AUD ($600 US) budget.
Ikon are based quite near to me, although i put some of there budget shocks on a kwack w650 i had and even after they finally put the correct spring on I was never overly impressed with them.
Gazi, allegedly designed for Australian conditions and can have height adjusters. But, I have seen old posts on here mentioning them, but nothing more recently and they dont seem to be available from Guzzitech anymore. Are they any good ? Why stop selling them ?
Any other suggestions greatly appreciated.
Hi Richard, first congrats and welcome to the GT & Guzzi Famiglia. I bought my first Cal 1100 (Jackal) in September of '99. It's evolution can be seen HERE, and it was the basis of development for the Cal 11/Tonti for the original GT website. As you'll see on the last iteration (and pics below), I went to the extreme in making it work as I wanted. Being a former pro dirt-track and road-racer here in the States, I needed something that could double as lead instructor for track duty, as well as make for a fun canyon machine here for the Southwest US.
All said, to answer some of your questions, as I've had more than double in what I paid for the bike in suspension mods alone (and near 20 pairs of rear shocks on the bike), this is what I've learned along the way. In stock trim, forks are best pulled up in the triples 1"/25mm, and put on 14.0"/355mm shocks. I recommend both. I also highly recommend the '02+ swingarm (only) to go up to a 360mm long shock, and allow a wider wheel. The '02 + swingarm uses a double u-joint setup that eases the u-j angles.
Tire selection is critical, but once suspended properly, the steering damper is irrelevant, even on the track. Going to a shorter/stiffer fork will awaken it even further, but it takes a more deliberate level of riding dedication. Many who have ridden my Jackal (as shown below) on the street, find it too demanding... which makes it very rewarding when ridden hard. I've also built others (pic at bottom) that wears 360mm shocks, Matris full cartridge kit, and smaller wider wheels (17"-ers front and rear with modern sport bike rubber), and no steering damper. It makes for an amazingly good street ride.
Ikons are largely affordable OEM replacement, and the aluminum body adjustable version is a small step up from there. For your budget, you will be bottom/middle of the road. My offerings on this site are pricey, but well proven. Spend the $ and only cry once, they say.
I tried to engage Gazi when they first launched, however the requirements had too high of expectations and demands for me. I settled in setting up via a dealer through another unnamed company here in the US. I bought one of each they offered to test. The first batch was fair to decent, and every batch after that got worse, while the price kept going up... quickly to a price equal to the very good shock offerings I have on this site. I walked away from them years ago and never looked back. I have no idea how they are now, as I've been working with those shown on the Store here exclusively.

Hope that helps some... post often, and enjoy the bike. Add your info to the Registry page if you would; https://www.guzzitech.com/forums/threads/bb-tonti-registry-and-pic-thread.12601/

Small track pic:
BW3 07 MeAvatar

As she now sits, massaged motor with ~90 rwhp -- but now has Penske Rear shocks that replaced the Ohlins;
GT-MMJ-7-07-2.jpg


GuzziTech '02 (Cal based)1100SS:
IMG 0730
 
Thanx guys, sorry for the late reply, Life keeps getting in the way.
I probably would of had your Ikons Shrek but being stupid and impatient I ordered some Hagons a few hours before you posted that. Bugger !
Also as I was really stretching on the budget for now I went the cheaper route 2810 instead of the Nitros. common sense over-ruled desire, which is unusual for me. I agree with you Todd about only crying once, buy cheap, buy twice. But the finances aren't there right now and as it turns out a couple of other expenses have cropped up this week so its a good job I did. And they did have to be replaced the originals were completely buggered.
I mentioned I was stupid and impatient didn't I.......
I ordered them at 360mm, again before I saw Todds advice. How bad is that going to be on the stock swingarm/driveshaft ?
I'll be keeping an eye out for a later one but till then ?
I've completely stripped and cleaned the forks with 20w oil for now.
I have put the forks back at stock height to judge the difference first and will try lowering them later. 1 ish change at a time.
Managed to snap 2 bolts in the alternator cover as some twat had put stainless bolts into alloy dry ! Fixed that and snapped an axle clamp bolt putting it back in before it got seated. Fixed that. I thought there was a sticky brake caliper front left so looked into that and found the flexi hose was blocked so that caliper hasn't been working. Then snapped the hose fitting at the caliper. :mad:
Just had 2 new braided hoses made up, thought it best to change both front hoses.
Head brgs good, all chassis bolts tight, replaced front wheel brgs and have rear wheel brgs ready to fit.

Tyres aren't due yet, but Shrek you say definatly go to radials, and I've read on another forum don't use radials ?????
Whats your opinion Todd ?
I will do the registry thing as soon as I can get it out of the garage and take a picture.
Love the evolution of your bike Todd, reminds me of the old broom gag. Council road sweeper has had the same broom for twenty years, Its had 14 new handles and 32 new heads but its still the same broom.

I'll update when I get to ride it again, unfortunately works getting in the way now.

All the best
Have fun
Rich
 
Thanx guys, sorry for the late reply, Life keeps getting in the way.
I probably would of had your Ikons Shrek but being stupid and impatient I ordered some Hagons a few hours before you posted that. Bugger !
Also as I was really stretching on the budget for now I went the cheaper route 2810 instead of the Nitros. common sense over-ruled desire, which is unusual for me. I agree with you Todd about only crying once, buy cheap, buy twice. But the finances aren't there right now and as it turns out a couple of other expenses have cropped up this week so its a good job I did. And they did have to be replaced the originals were completely buggered.
I mentioned I was stupid and impatient didn't I.......
I ordered them at 360mm, again before I saw Todds advice. How bad is that going to be on the stock swingarm/driveshaft ?
I'll be keeping an eye out for a later one but till then ?
I've completely stripped and cleaned the forks with 20w oil for now.
I have put the forks back at stock height to judge the difference first and will try lowering them later. 1 ish change at a time.
Managed to snap 2 bolts in the alternator cover as some twat had put stainless bolts into alloy dry ! Fixed that and snapped an axle clamp bolt putting it back in before it got seated. Fixed that. I thought there was a sticky brake caliper front left so looked into that and found the flexi hose was blocked so that caliper hasn't been working. Then snapped the hose fitting at the caliper. :mad:
Just had 2 new braided hoses made up, thought it best to change both front hoses.
Head brgs good, all chassis bolts tight, replaced front wheel brgs and have rear wheel brgs ready to fit.

Tyres aren't due yet, but Shrek you say definatly go to radials, and I've read on another forum don't use radials ?????
Whats your opinion Todd ?
I will do the registry thing as soon as I can get it out of the garage and take a picture.
Love the evolution of your bike Todd, reminds me of the old broom gag. Council road sweeper has had the same broom for twenty years, Its had 14 new handles and 32 new heads but its still the same broom.

I'll update when I get to ride it again, unfortunately works getting in the way now.

All the best
Have fun
Rich

Hi
Whats done is done.
I cant comment on 360mm shocks affecting UJ reliabilty as i have the later 2001 model which according to Todd has a different UJ setup.
My guess would be nothing to worry about in the short term but UJ life may be shortened?
They should be great for adding a little clearance and speeding up the steering a little.
As Todd says sliding the forks up 20mm is also the way to go to improve steering.

Radials are a big improvement over cross plys.They make an old clanger feel like a modern bike.
They make the bike feel lighter and give me a lot more confidence to push through the corners without instability.

I cant think of any reason why others would say not to?
Other than they havnt been readily available in our sizes until recent years and not in any matching sets that i am aware of for a Cali.I have used a few sets of tyres of different brands and sizes with no problems on two Tonti,s and can say that they all out perform cross plys in every area except price.All radial types i have tried have better traction,handleing characteristics,stability and wear than any cross ply and that performance lasts with worn tyres where cross plys deteriorate.

Would you consider fitting cross plys to your car these days?

Have fun with your project.
Shrek.
 
OH F*** WOW !!!!!! :party::party::party:
Finally got her together and out of the garage. Went for a test ride up Mt Buffalo, what a difference its like a completely different bike.
I shouldn't be surprised really, but WOW !
I had assumed, not being used to this style of bike, that the complete lack of feedback from the front was probably normal. But now i am getting that feedback. Thought the brakes were adequate, being an older bike, now I've got both fronts working its so much better. Although I'm not sure about the integrated side of things, as I am used to trail braking the rear some, I will give it some time to get used too/ adjust my riding to suit. Maybe later look at de-integrating ?
Then I dropped the forks 20mm. Me Likey ! :inlove:
Like you said Shrek 'Nimble'

Tyres will have to wear out before I look at them as the budget is now in minus figures.
I would be inclined to agree with you on Radials, its just that reading the opposite, on the internet so it must be true, had me thinking that it is an older bike I guess designed around older tyres maybe they have a point ? Now it rides like it should radials will be in my future.

Many Thanx
Rich
 

Attachments

  • 20170507_152647.jpg
    20170507_152647.jpg
    198 KB · Views: 22
I am needing to lower my 2000 Jackal a little and was wondering how much the tubes can be slid upward in the triple trees before the travel is encumbered.
 
Never mind, I believe I've found my answer back in the "Dreaded Tonti Weave" posts of 2015-2017. About 1" seems to be the maximum without dead heading the lowers into the bottom triple tree.
 
Bump for merge.
Set up, suspension and tires can make or break a Tonti. 20-25mm all day long. See my Jackal above.
 
I see much attention has been given to the front forks. The swing arm is also important. There are two threaded pins that center the swing arm in the frame and pre-load the swing arm bearings. I use them to center the swing arm and the distance they are out from the frame I try to get within 0.5mm.
 
Back
Top