Starting Problems Breva v1100

[xenarchi]

Not looking for much of an answer...but looking to moan a little bit, but maybe some one has an idea.

Last year I had the problem with the alternator. It was replaced. I kept the same battery in the bike.

A few times this year, recently. This is after a ride each time. Turn the bike on, get the usual dial sweep, thumb the start button, nothing, click, nothing. Try a few mores times, nada. just click. Thinking maybe the battery has worn down over the last few years, not changing it after the alternator issue and the fact I have my GPS wired directly, I though it was time for a new battery. The other day when this happened I put the battery of a charger for about 30 mins, replaced and the bike started.

Now I have a new battery, no issues for a week or so. The other day after a ride, I stopped to get some food. 20 mins later, the bike wouldn't start. Doing the same damned thing. Click, and nothing else. Pushed her home. Not to far but enough to piss me off. Now the bike is unreliable again. Getting stuck a few hundred miles from home AGAIN is not fun.

So what the bloody hell could it be? Yesterday I went outside to move the bike for street cleaning and she started up right away. The battery meter on the bike shows the battery charges with no issue when moving and the other day she was at 12.2 when the bike started. (this was after a day of sitting)

One coincidence I did notice is that the last time the bike wouldn't start I was in a haste to shut down and kicked the stand out in gear. Bike shut off. I think the last time this happened i got the same result? maybe not...

I just read in the tech section about new maps for the bike and a mention of a Hot Start issue with the Breva?

I don't know...bit of a bummer.

 

[xenarchi]

What is the Breva 'Hot Start' issue? I have been having staring problems I thought was the battery. Same problems, new battery....

The hot start issue seem to stem from the bike sitting in the sun. The sensors tell the ECU the bike is hot, but it isn't. Most prevalent after a short off period. Since having the updated map installed I haven't experienced the condition.

 

[john zibell]

Adam,

What do you get the "click" sound from? Is it the starter relay or starter solenoid? If from the relay, the solenoid isn't engaging properly. If the solenoid is engaging and the starter doesn't turn when hot if may be a bushing issue with the starter. Ride with the starter cover off for awhile. When the issue occurs again, see if you can "jumper" the solenoid (jumper from the battery cable at the starter to the male spade connection on the solenoid). If the bike starts, the solenoid isn't getting enough voltage from the control circuit, if it doesn't turn the starter, you have a starter/solenoid problem.

 

[xenarchi]

Thanks.

The click seems to be coming from the right side of the bike near the seat area vs. the left side by the starter. Would that indicate the relay is clicking?

Also reading your answer in the other section, I get rough starts too. If I start the bike and try to give her gas, she will stall out. I start the bike and she revs high, like being on full choke. A hand full of seconds later the bike idles down to normal. Only until I let her idle and allow the idle kick down automatically, can I give her gas.

 

[john zibell]

Thanks.

The click seems to be coming from the right side of the bike near the seat area vs. the left side by the starter. Would that indicate the relay is clicking?

Also reading your answer in the other section, I get rough starts too. If I start the bike and try to give her gas, she will stall out. I start the bike and she revs high, like being on full choke. A hand full of seconds later the bike idles down to normal. Only until I let her idle and allow the idle kick down automatically, can I give her gas.

Looks like you have two problems. The updated map will do wonders for the hot start issue, but not the no start issue. You will need to troubleshoot the electrics for that one. The starter relay is one of those under the seat. The general service manual in the download section will give you the specific location.

 

[NeroGuzzi]

If the starter doesn't engage, and your battery is good, you can listen for the starter relay to click on after you push the start button, then wait about 4 seconds and hear the starter relay click off. Assuming your battery is good, you can at least rule out the starter relay.

I have had the same issue as Adam. I ended up taking the starter cover off and banging on the solenoid. That did the trick and the bike started. This has only happened once. By all accounts, my battery is strong. If my starter issue recurs frequently, I will heed John Zibell's advice and buy the starter/solenoid recommended.

 

[xenarchi]

If the starter doesn't engage, and your battery is good, you can listen for the starter relay to click on after you push the start button, then wait about 4 seconds and hear the starter relay click off. Assuming your battery is good, you can at least rule out the starter relay.

I have had the same issue as Adam. I ended up taking the starter cover off and banging on the solenoid. That did the trick and the bike started. This has only happened once. By all accounts, my battery is strong. If my starter issue recurs frequently, I will heed John Zibell's advice and buy the starter/solenoid recommended.

That is what happens. Relay clicks on, a few seconds later, relay clicks off. Totally intermittent and very frustrating. Sitting by the side of the road with Five Guy's burgers getting cold was v. annoying.

 

[Davy]

My 06 Breva had a similar sounding problem. The first thing I checked was the battery terminals ( cheap and easy), cleaned them and smeared them with petroleum jelly. Problem solved. Prior to this the voltage readout on the dash was variable, since the clean up job the readout has been consistent ( I can't remember the value, it's that long since I checked).
Hope this helps.

 

[xenarchi]

took a ride today, for 3.5 hours as I had the day off.

no problems.

I didn't stop.



on a brighter note, the bike loved the 57 degree weather.

 

[2Laner]

Xenarchi, Most excellent, glad you got that ride in. Sometimes even when shit gets in our way, a good ride does wonders and is the only thing that matters. Hope it is just a battery issue. I know your on top of it and will sort it out. Seems that new gen batteries are a different beast these days. Unless they are "powered up" just right they will fail. Strange but true.

 

[3ackok]

My 06 Breva had a similar sounding problem. The first thing I checked was the battery terminals ( cheap and easy), cleaned them and smeared them with petroleum jelly. Problem solved. Prior to this the voltage readout on the dash was variable, since the clean up job the readout has been consistent ( I can't remember the value, it's that long since I checked).
Hope this helps.

I had the same problem and the same solution.

 

[xenarchi]

Wired my GPS lead direct to the brake lights, so no longer direct wired to the battery terminals. Smear with PJ and tightened down the bolts. Here's hoping to this being the fix.

 

[mcwilljg]

I've had the same problems on both an '03 Stone & an '06 Breva 1100. The Stone would start like a champ, but periodically it would only click once and then nothing. If I left it alone, it would start normally after a few hours. Thought it was the battery, but eventually I tore down the starter and found that it was fried internally. The bike only had 4,000 miles and I had had it only for 400 of those. Apparently the previous owner had cranked too long and partially burnt it up. The Valeo starters will burn up after only 5 seconds of continuous use.

I just purchased the Breva 1100 and now am having the same problems with this Valeo starter.Rotten luck! On the bright side, tonight I found a new Valeo started for $95.95, part # 30730711, at http://www.db-starter-alternator.com. Hard to believe, but it comes with a 1-year guarantee. I'll let you know how this turns out in a couple of days after I get the starter.

Cheers,
mcwilljg

 

[john zibell]

I've had the same problems on both an '03 Stone & an '06 Breva 1100. The Stone would start like a champ, but periodically it would only click once and then nothing. If I left it alone, it would start normally after a few hours. Thought it was the battery, but eventually I tore down the starter and found that it was fried internally. The bike only had 4,000 miles and I had had it only for 400 of those. Apparently the previous owner had cranked too long and partially burnt it up. The Valeo starters will burn up after only 5 seconds of continuous use.

I just purchased the Breva 1100 and now am having the same problems with this Valeo starter.Rotten luck! On the bright side, tonight I found a new Valeo started for $95.95, part # 30730711, at http://www.db-starter-alternator.com. Hard to believe, but it comes with a 1-year guarantee. I'll let you know how this turns out in a couple of days after I get the starter.

Cheers,
mcwilljg

If you plan to keep a bike long term, I'd use one of these http://www.motoelekt.com/guzzistarter.htm The Valeo just isn't that good, no matter what you paid for it.

 

[mcwilljg]

John,

Thanks for the starter tip. Based on my experiences, I'd have to agree with you on the inferior quality of the Valeo. What's interesting is the fact that Dave Richardson, on page 17-54 of his Guzziology, states that the French made Valeo starter was "great news" for Guzzi owners when it came along in the late '80's and replaced the less capable Bosch, Lucas, and Marelli starters. The Valeo has planetary gear reduction making it more powerful than the others. Do you know whether the Mitsubishi has the planetary-gear reduction? He does warn, however, not to crank for longer than 5 sec. or risk burning the starter up. This is true for all starters, but especially the Valeo.

I will try the Mitsubishi that you recommend, but not until the new $95 Valeo craps out on me. Hopefully, that won't be for some time yet.

Joe McWilliams

 

[deynachia]

I've had similar problems. My valeo starter motor died 2 days after getting my breva. Got a bosch replacement, and ok for 10mths.

Then one day, after gassing up, on a trip, the bike just wouldn't start. Clicking sound from the right side of the bike, and nothing.

Push started, and continued. Next day, expecting to push start, i thought I'd try my luck with the ign switch. Voila. It started first push.

3 mths now, and this evening, the bike didn't start again.

Mech took off the starter motor cover off, and pushed the thin wire (square plug) and voila, it starts.

That blessed connector's essential for starting. And the connection is typically loose. Crimped it down a bit, should hold now.

So it's not starter motor, not starter relay. It's just the square plug connector on the starter motor (relay is integrated).

Give it a try.. Might be the same fix.

deyna

 

[Kevin.NZ]

You mention not to keep cranking for more than 5 seconds, I don't think you have much control over that. If you just press and release the starter button the engine keeps cranking over untill it starts and reaches 400RPM then the starter motor releases, I am not sure though how long it would crank if it would not fire. Once the engine is running at 1200RPM if you accidentally press the start button it has no effect.
Kevin