Taking the B11 plunge

[dkwracer]

Hello, newbee here but have been lurking and impressed with the info...Have an opportunity go buy a low mileage 07 B11 with 1600 miles. After owning a few BMW's I am very aware of the problems that surround both of these bikes. In particular I am dissapointed in the frequency of BMW FD failures and the costs of owners ship. seems like you are almost obligated to purchase an extended warranty to cover possible but obvious failures...The recent posts about Grisso's valve train are a concern, and hope MG does fulfill their obligations...If I do decide to purchase the B11, then can I look forward to the following issues:

CARC failures within 20 k miles.
Rough idle from the get go
Suspect starter issues
Buga-boo electrical failures
Header pipe flaking
Suspect oil pump failure

Ouch, boy would I like to own a Breva, but is this too much of a risk.........so really, how many failures vs successes

Test ride is this Sunday, hope for the best..

Thanks in advance for the info

Tom Brosius
Mile High Pentons

 

[Mike.C]

Welcome Tom.

I'll give you my 02 worth while we wait for the rest of the punters to get outa bed.

CARC failures within 20 k miles: Unlikely, there was a bad batch of bearings early on that were the subject of a recall and some have gone that were outside the recall range, but the CARC has proved to be very reliable with many many more with zero trouble than those that have failed. Having said that - check the rear drive for signs of free play by rocking the rear wheel top/bottom with the bike on the centre stand, any and I mean any freeplay when you rock the wheel might indicate a bearing on teh way out. BUT even if you do find some, don't panic - just negotiate the price and have it replaced along with the seal - problem solved. IMO it is not a reason to reject the bike given that the CARC has proven to be very reliable. I say all that even though mine went at about 14000km and just out of warranty - Guzzi Oz picked up the tab for all but the install labour costs, although some have not been so lucky with out of warranty work being a bit of push and shove. Fore warned is fore armed, but I say again, the good ones far far out number the bad - it is not a failure story like the BM final drive.

Rough idle from the get go: Nope idle is perfect - where did you hear this? Maybe some US bikes with Evap canisters, but that is easy fixed with a cut and shut.

Suspect starter issues: You are looking for problems where there aint any - move along now.

Bug-a-boo electrical failures: Aaaaaargh again where did that come from - let's just ride. You could on second thoughts I suppose ask if it has been garaged or ridden a lot in the rain - as the instrument panel has poor drainage and there have been some that have failed because of water ingress, symptoms are condensation in the clocks. Fix is simple and detailed on the board - entails drilling a couple of drain holes. Moving along now what's next?

Header pipe flaking: No no flaking, but they do tarnish as they are single wall and the stainles steel is a grade that doesn't hold a shine with heat and finger prints. Several fixes - I had mine ceramic coated, others spend weekends polishing them, others just don't care - take your pick.

Suspect oil pump failure: Never heard of one on a B11 - ever. Let me know if you find one!

I might sound like I'm on a soapbox, but really the B11 is a well built machine, and I like the simplicity of the machine with 2 valves and no pretentious bullshit. Sure some quirks are there and if you want to find issues you could make a long list and could put you off, but what bike can't you find issues with if you look hard enough.

If you like the bike and it fits your riding style - go for it. You won't be dissapointed witht the mechanics or reliability, so let's get on with it and see the pics of your new ride.

 

[Brevabrabo]

Awake since 5 am this morning Dutch local time, just arrived home from work.
I've got 22000 km on my Breva 1100 (2008).
Only "problems" I've got were two lost bolts. One from the centre-stand and one from the hugger.
That's it, very boaring ain't it? :geek:

I must say that I'm lucky to live near one of the best Guzzi-dealers you will find, riding Guzzi since 2005 and reading this forum, I learned that this is one of the most important things owning a Guzzi, Do it yourself or find a real Good mechanic who knows Guzzi's. The quality of Moto Guzzi has much improved since the introduction of the Breva.

Just make a testride, you'll love it!
Ciao Dolf.

 

[Kevin.NZ]

Hi Tom,
10pm in New Zealand
Here's my 2peneth worth, I have a 07 B11 that i bought from new with about 25,000Kms on it now,
The Carc was replaced before I picked up the bike by the importers and to date is has not given any trouble.
The idle is spot on whether cold or hot.
The starter has never given any trouble and the bike starts 1st time every time.
The electrics have been faultless even in heavy rain, but I do have a speedo that sticks in the hot weather and is being replaced under warrenty.
The Header pipes were a concern but within months of owning the bike I had them ceramic coated silver and I buff them every 4 months
My oil pump is working well, I'ld soon know if it wasnt.
The bike is very easy to maintain and 95% of the work can be done without specialised tools, just check the tightness of nuts/bolts every month as some have a habit of coming loose.

I must admit if I had know about and read the comments before I purchased my bike i would have 2nd thoughts but I now know 1000's of people read these forums and the vast majority are very happy with their bike, a very small group of owners are having various issues/concerns which are easily sorted by the knowledgable input of mechanics/technicians who offer their services free on this forum.
Go for a good test ride, I am sure you wont be dissapointed, the bike is a comfortable, powerful, reliable eye catcher.
Cheers Kevin
PS- I dont work for Moto Guzzi

 

[GrahamNZ]

Tom

All brands and all bikes can give troubles. Even Hondas. In my experience modern Guzzis are well made, are nothing to be afraid of, and are as good as most bikes and better than many - provided they light your fires. My 05 Breva V1100 has had a few problems early on but is now very sweet indeed. With 43,000km + on it I'm sure I'll wear out before it does. Overall I have and still do enjoy the bike but if it was stolen or written off I wouldn't buy another one because despite its great many good points there are a few things about it which I don't like and have never come to accept:

Lack of low rev torque. Keep at least 4,000 RPM showing when asking the motor to work and it's fine though. Also owning a Buell has spoilt me when it comes to low rev torque. Breva 2.7kg/kN. Buell 1.6kg/kN, which is the same as a Yamaha MT-01.

Noisy multi-plate dry clutch rattle. BMW boxers are silent compared to these.

Noisy upward changes from 1st to 2nd and often from 2nd to 3rd. If you really try you can make silent changes but on other bikes I've owned all changes have been silent without needing to try.

Poor cornering clearance with the cenrestand fitted. The general handling deserves better clearance. Again, owning a Buell has spoilt me here too.

Once bought you'll probably own it forever! As well as being beguiling bikes, Guzzis are not appreciated by many potential bike buyers. Then again, anything will sell if the price is low enough..........

 

[Penis Rotor]

CARC failures within 20 k miles.

Mike has covered this. I'm just about to do a 'Show and Tell' on bearing replacement. it's not a big deal.

Rough idle from the get go

Never heard of this one? Perhaps whoever said it has never had his bike tuned or, more likely just made it up. As long as the stepper is working correctly the idle is ridiculously consistent. If the TB's have never been ballanced and the TPS never re-set then what do people expect??

Suspect starter issues

Poor earthing has been known to cause an 'Insufficient voltage' failure on start up. It's rare but the cure is remove the starter cover, remove the fitting that holds the earth strap to the engine, coat with contact protector/dialectric grease/vaseline, reinstall. Go.

Buga-boo electrical failures

Yes, it's Italian so none of the electrics work, ever, dunno why they even bother putting a loom on it? Oh fer christs sakes, what a load of bollox.

Header pipe flaking

Single skinned stainless. What's to flake?

Suspect oil pump failure.

I have heard of TWO Norges that had pumps that failed. That's all. Norges use a different pump to early Breva 11's. Later ones have the trochoidal pump. Both are reliable. I have a feeling there may of been one or two poorly finished or heat treated rotors in the later pumps. Failures are so rare it is hard to confirm though.

Ouch, boy would I like to own a Breva, but is this too much of a risk.........so really, how many failures vs successes

Life is full of risk. You could be walking down the street and someone could drop an anvil on your head. Probably about as likely as a well maintained Breva 11 with 1600KM on it going tits up, but what would I know??

Thanks in advance for the info

Tom Brosius
Mile High Pentons

You're welcome

Pete

 

[NeroGuzzi]

Bought a 2007 B11 new. I had one problem almost immediately and it was a the instrument panel taking on water. It was replaced under warranty. I have since put 14,000 miles on the bike and it has been very reliable.

 

[dkwracer]

Hello, and thanks for all the terrific replys, picking up my Breva today, negotiated a fair price of 7500 US, comes with all the Guzzi luggage and windscreen too! First up on maintenance fuel filter inspection, then ck all elect. connectors using diaelectric grease.
Tappet clearances .004/.006 flush fill lubricants, main oil Motorex 10w40w, gearbox Amsoil 75/140, CARC same unless advised otherwise...Again, what a great Forum, much like the Penton Owners Group Forum (testament to a great piece of motorcycling history)

Adios, Tom Brosius (Denver, Col. USA)

 

[draidt]

Hello, and thanks for all the terrific replys, picking up my Breva today, negotiated a fair price of 7500 US, comes with all the Guzzi luggage and windscreen too! First up on maintenance fuel filter inspection, then ck all elect. connectors using diaelectric grease.
Tappet clearances .004/.006 flush fill lubricants, main oil Motorex 10w40w, gearbox Amsoil 75/140, CARC same unless advised otherwise...Again, what a great Forum, much like the Penton Owners Group Forum (testament to a great piece of motorcycling history)

Adios, Tom Brosius (Denver, Col. USA)

Moterex 10W60 is all I can add, From your first post it appeared someone was trying to give you some tainted Kool Aid to drink, you came to the right place. Enjoy your Guzzi !

 

[xenarchi]

yeah use 10/60 vs. 10/40

gearbox and CARC can use the same oil.

 

[NeroGuzzi]

then ck all elect. connectors using diaelectric grease.

DKW, I wouldn't start pulling electrical connections unless you have a reason. You may cause more problems. Now if you happen to be working on the bike and take apart a connection, than yes. Otherwise, leave well enough alone.

 

[GrahamNZ]

Tom

With the right attitude, which you appear to have, I'm sure you'll enjoy your new Breva.

yeah use 10/60 vs. 10/40

gearbox and CARC can use the same oil.

NB The gearbox and CARC can use the same oil as each other, not the same oil as the engine!!!!!!!!!!

If you're going to service the bike yourself having VDSTS and a laptop is essential. Every time the tappets are adjusted the TPS needs to be reset.

While this is a great forum when it's working, it has suffered several collapses and now much of the older technical info can be hard to find. PM me if you can't find anything you want but can't find.

 

[bruce_perler]

3000 plus miles into a new B11 as of this fall and no problems other than warranty replacement of front rotors. I've been a Honda man for the past 20 years am now even happier.

As with so many of the other posters above, I concure, there's no such thing as a perfect motorcycle and, there are many that test how far from perfect they can stray before their owners change their minds. I'm convinced I'll be a Guzzi man for at least 20 years starting, now!

 

[guzzibob]

. Every time the tappets are adjusted the TPS needs to be reset.

Why? You're just putting the tappets back to where they were when last set.

 

[Penis Rotor]

. Every time the tappets are adjusted the TPS needs to be reset.

Why? You're just putting the tappets back to where they were when last set.

Yup, Why? The tappet settings have nothing to do with the fueling apart from altering the cam timing a smidge if they are larger/smaller.

I have found with all but a couple of the bikes I've worked on with the 2VPC engine that once re-set at the first service, (They all seem to come from the factory at about 3.5 degrees and re-setting brings 'em to 4.6.) they don't change by more than 0.1 of a degree over, well, the highest 'mileage' one I've seen is a 65,000Km Breva 11 and it was still good.

I have no idea really why the one's that 'wander' do? perhaps it's something to do with the spindle bushings. I have no idea.

At the end of the day when was the last time you gave even a second's thought to the EFI on your family car? Probably never! Unless the bike has to be taken to bits for some other reason I see it as very unlikely that *stuff* will change, and it hasn't on either of my *New* Guzzis or my Aprilia!

Set it up ONCE. RIGHT! and it will probably be good for a very, very long time. Why wouldn't it?

Pete

 

[GrahamNZ]

Set it up ONCE. RIGHT! and it will probably be good for a very, very long time. Why wouldn't it?

Because tappets don't all wear and open the clearances equally. Because anything, such as tappet clearance, component wear and carbon buildup, which alters the volumetric efficiency of a cylinder will affect it's performance relative to the other one. Because anything which moves, especially things which aren't well lubricated - like the link rod ball joints on the throttle bodies and the throttle plate pivot shaft wear over time. Because some TPS units do seem to wander slightly.

If any owner is going to set their own tappets then they really do need to either have VDSTS at hand or have a dealer willing to to use Axone on the bike. Since dealers with Axone and the ability to use it are not always easy to find it realy is a good idea for spanner-capable owners to have VDSTS.

 

[dkwracer]

Hi Graham. thanks for the reply re: TPS adj... after simple valve readj I did ck my valves and they had opened up to approx 10 and 12 thou....after re-setting the valves to 4/6 the mtr was a bit quieter.Two things to consider....1 my Breva has only 1600 miles so, so far no worries mate,,, 2 we have a dealer/stealer in our area, not to be trusted.............My Breva is locked away in the garage, and Begs to be ridden, in the meantime, I fashioned some bar risers by myself out of .5 in flat bar stock ( yankee enginuity). I also plan on installing a DIY heated handlebar grips avail. from Western Power sports at a cost of 25.00US, have done this before on more than one....
Owning a Guzzi? my first...2010 miles and miles


Tom Brosius

 

[guzzibob]

Set it up ONCE. RIGHT! and it will probably be good for a very, very long time. Why wouldn't it?

Because tappets don't all wear and open the clearances equally. Because anything, such as tappet clearance, component wear ......alters the volumetric efficiency...

I'm with Pete in not buying this at all. Matters not how much the tappets have worn, either individually or in relation to each other, once readjusted. Assuming not burnt, they are then back to where they started. Fail to see how this relates to TPS adjustment in any way.

 

[oca]

Bought an '06 B11 in August '06 from an old timer in Santa Barbara. The bike was set up perfectly. 12,000 mile later -- identical to when I bought it

My suggestiion is don't buy it. You have too much mental baggage.

 

[GrahamNZ]

Best keep that mental baggage to myself then. Good luck to you all.