Digital Camera Buying Advice (Yes, Again)

[Bill Hagan]

There have been several threads on this over time, but as my needs are more or less specific and the offerings change so often, thought I'd start a separate thread.

I also recognize that some of you might see this as an opportunity to steer me in entirely the wrong direction simply to avoid more of my photo essays!

I'll take the risk, so here goes:

I am (yet again) trying to find the right digital camera, for reasons explained below.

Here's what (I think) I want, more or less in order of priority:

* High-quality pix

* Ditto movies with sound

* Waterproof (don't mind -- and might even prefer -- to buy separate w/p case)

* Shock resistant

* Simple to use (spousal-unit requirement!)

* "Glove usable"

* Image stabilization

* Zoom less important than "standard" 28mm wide angle

* Small(ish)

* Metal tripod threads so can put on Ram mount on the Guzzis to take stills and vids

* SD, not proprietary memory card

* AA batteries, not proprietary [not a big deal, but preferable)

* Reasonable price, i.e., I am not interested in leading-edge technology and its pricetag unless that is only way I can meet the above need/want specs

As background, know that I have been fairly happy with my Pentax Optio W10, which is waterproof and has an internal zoom, thereby avoiding bug juice gumming up the lens ... a nasty business to clean. I found its photo quality inferior, in vividness of color, anyway, to the Sony Cybershot it replaced, but some asshat in Hawaii stole that one and I bought the W10. Regrettably, it has plastic threads in its mount cavity, and those have failed after a year or so of (mis)use. Cannot fix, as a practical matter, so thinking Kathi can use it for her grandbaby pix and I will get a better replacement, thus this post.

Know many of you know lots about cameras and photography. I enjoy taking pix, but as you also already know, I am an enthusiastic amateur only.

Appreciate your suggestions.

Bill

 

[Holt]

Bill;

Do have a look on the Panasonic Lumix range. You can have a 24 mm lens for a reasonable amount, and a 25 mm lens for a small amount.
The lenses are Leitz on the Lumix cameras.
Probably not waterproof cameras.

If you can find all as described in one, please mention it here....

 

[Bill Hagan]

Holt wrote:

Bill;

Do have a look on the Panasonic Lumix range. You can have a 24 mm lens for a reasonable amount, and a 25 mm lens for a small amount.
The lenses are Leitz on the Lumix cameras.
Probably not waterproof cameras.

If you can find all as described in one, please mention it here....

I agree re Lumix. Impressive stuff.

Was also taken by Gary Tilson's response to same question on w/g re the Olympia Stylus 6K & 8K "Tough" series, released officially, oddly enough, today. http://www.dpreview.com/news/0901/09010 ... stough.asp

I have a question into a POC at Olympus -- which may never get answered! -- about the threads for the tripod mount. Seems to me that if it metal threads, it has all I listed, but I am an amateur user, not a techie, so I'll watch for a few independent review rather than rely on ad-copy hype.

Regards,

Bill

Must admit

 

[draidt]

FWIW

I have 2 Olympus digital camera's, the newest is a stylist 720 and both have the standard 1/4 20 METAL tripod mounts recess holes.

 

[Bill Hagan]

Just got got an answer from Olympus ... said the "Stylus Tough" has plastic threads.

 

[Mike.C]

That's some list of features you're after Bill, and it will certainly weed out the field pretty quickly.

FWIW I currently use the Canon Powershot A720IS and Sal uses a Canon IXUS 860IS

Both fiail your metal thread and water proof requirement and each has some lack of other features you are looking for.

But, I can say that they have excellent optics ease of use but with enough adjustability and whizbangs to allow you to play around and indeed the A720 has an individual manual control functionality over shutter speed, aperture and ISO Speed which is good for action and low light.

The control features that Canon put in their cameras are enough that even a mug punter like me can get reasonable results, but allow someone with a bit more skill to use the camera to achieve results not possible with the cheaper point and shoot type cameras, and I am learning new tricks all the time with them.

It might be that Canon now have one in their range that meets more of your requirement list, and if they do I would have no hesitation in recommending one based on our experience with the two that we have.

I will be interested to see what camera you settle on.

 

[RJVB]

Heh, those Olympus thingies do have a number of goodies for the obligatory (loads of ) spousal and granddaddy pics

Capable of recognising up to 3 faces, the µ TOUGH-8000’s Face Detection Technology guarantees that human subjects are always perfectly focused and exposed. The µ TOUGH-6000, which boasts Advanced Face Detection Technology, goes one better and can detect up to 16 faces. It also has a handy Smile Shot feature which automatically takes the picture as soon as the subject smiles and, for even happier results, Beauty Mode can retouch their skin as the shot is being taken, removing lines and wrinkles for a smooth glowing complexion.

(oops, means grandkiddy, not granddaddy... :silly

I have to agree with Mike on the Powershot camera. I too have a Powershot 720IS, which is even better than the old A60 it replaced, and I use it at least as often as my A700 dslr. Doesn't have a real wide-angle lens though, but for the price you could almost use it until the mount thread wears out and then get a new one...

 

[Mike.C]

Hey Bill,

Where are you at with this project?

I just saw a post on ADVRider about the new Canon PowerShot D10 Adventure Camera that might fit some of your requirements.

CANON info click HERE

ADVRIder discussion thread is HERE

 

[Bill Hagan]

Mike.C wrote:

Hey Bill,

Where are you at with this project?

I just saw a post on ADVRider about the new Canon PowerShot D10 Adventure Camera that might fit some of your requirements.

CANON info click HERE

ADVRIder discussion thread is HERE

Thanks. Will look at those.

Have not pulled trigger yet, but will soon.

Leaning toward Olympus Stylus Tough 600.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0901/09010 ... stough.asp

Think if I'm more careful with threading, may not muck those up as I did out of ignorance before.

Bill

 

[Bill Hagan]

Well, checked on the Canon PowerShot D10 Mike mentioned. Sent an email to Canon asking if the the threads were plastic or metal. Got a response almost instantly! Unfortunately, the answer was "A very hard plastic."

Hmmmmm. Also not available until May, which, in my experience with such announcements, means June, if that. And, I probably want to buy this month or in March so as to get some trip pix, etc. Need to study the specs, too, of course.

Then, saw the "GoPro Wide " on webbikeworld: http://www.webbikeworld.com/r4/hero-camera/gopro-wide/

Could buy Kathi something she would be happy with, i.e., most anything, and get this for me. Have to read the article closely, as I remember the first review of this camera's pic quality was not encouraging.

Bill

 

[RJVB]

Bill, about the threading: have you considered replacing a plastic mount with one made from nylon, either home-made of by one of your wrenching buddies? The threading is standard, so shouldn't be difficult to get right ... and a plastic mount can (if all else fails) be removed with a drill bit or even a soldering iron :silly:

Alternatively, have you looked at the underwater housings available for the Canon Powershot models (e.g. for the 720is)? Basically, that's what you also get with the GoPro, but at least with a Canon you're sure about image quality...

 

[Mike.C]

I went to the Gold Coast bike show on the weekend, and saw some gear that while pricey looked like it had potential with a neat little camera that they mounted in a waterproof housing.

Got me thinking about your dilemna Bill, maybe separate movie and still cams would be a better way to go. OTOH more batteries and hassle... hmmmmmmm

Launch Helmet Cams

 

[Bill Hagan]

Mike.C wrote:

I went to the Gold Coast bike show on the weekend, and saw some gear that while pricey looked like it had potential with a neat little camera that they mounted in a waterproof housing.

Got me thinking about your dilemna Bill, maybe separate movie and still cams would be a better way to go. OTOH more batteries and hassle... hmmmmmmm

Launch Helmet Cams

Thanks.

I asked a pro photographer friend of mine about all of this. Here's what he said:

"OK, I've looked it over and also tried to see if there's anything else out their, but you pretty much have covered it.

First, I like the design of the Canon best of all. Feature wise, it is equal to the Olympus, however both use a proprietary battery unit (I would buy an extra and just keep one charged) However, you are correct - if they say release date is May then it really means August. Basically, they are the same camera - which is to say neither jumps out more than the other as far as bells and whistles. The Olympus is a little less expensive, and it's available, making it my choice between those two.

However, for what you are planning to do with the camera, I would consider the GoWide Pro - and here's why. I have never been a big fan of adapting equipment for specialized use when there's something out there that is designed specifically for what I want to do. The camera component of the goWide may not be the greatest, but the combined package would be my first pick - primarily because of the wide angle extension lens and the fact that it is truly "glove usable." It's built exactly for what you want it to do.

I would get the GoWide, keep your old Olympus for Grandbaby shots until it goes kaput or until the next gift-giving holiday, and at that time present Kathi with a Canon Digial Elph - easy to use, great quality, very small, and full of features that can be utilized or ignored. It's our choice for a PnS. The price is right on the GoWide, and you won't heart broken if for some reason it decides to leave the bike and hit the asphalt, or if it goes missing while you're causing a bar fight in North Carolina.

Remember, also, that megapixels and a lot of the features that camera manufacturers tout mean absolutely nothing to the average snapshot person - if the camera is easy to use and accomplishes its intended function then it's the right camera for you.

My 2 cents. hope it helps!"

I am inclined to 1) try rjvb's "fix the Pentax if you can," but failing that, go for the GoWide Pro.

Will report what I do.

Bill

 

[Mike.C]

Hah, now I realise that RJVB's suggestion and the thing I saw are the same thing just different suppliers - where is my head - not screwed on it would seem.

 

[Bill Hagan]

My, how time flies.

This is an interim response to a thread about cameras that hasn't popped in a year.

I say "interim" because UPS just delivered my third camera purchase in less than a year, all in attempt to replace my damaged Olympus Optio W10, claimed waterproof, shockproof point & shoot digital camera. And, yes, the truth has changed.

Anyway, I had been pretty happy with that Optio, but did not know 'til too late that it had plastic threads in its tripod mount. I learned that by over-tightening it on the Ram mount one too many times and stripping it out entirely. Can't heli-coil it (!), but a local camera shop said they would fix it for $108. I should have jumped at that! OTOH, it had seen hard use and I thought I would try something new. Moreover, tho I kept it for back-up use, it recently managed -- perhaps out of spite -- to "eat" a SD 2MB disk with pix. "Deformatted" it and I am frightened I intend to dissect it soon for the fun of it.

So, tried to find one that met my other desires -- waterproof, shock resistant, internal zoom to prevent yellow bug juice gumming up the extension, metal tripod threads, video, etc. -- and settled on the new Olympus Stylus Tough 6000, with "Tap Technology," i.e., the capability of taking pix merely by tapping the case with no need to press the actual shutter release. Hmmmmmm. That last sounded pretty good.

Well, after a couple of weeks, a discussion with the stupidest CSR I can recall in years, and general frustrations with it, I gave the camera to my daughter. I'll post some comp pix -- which weren't bad, btw, but the warstopper was that the motorcycle's vibrations caused the "tap" function to turn itself on even if manually turned off!

I then tried the Canon Powershot D10. I knew this one had plastic threads, but figured I had learned my over-torquing lesson and would be careful. And, I was. But this camera was worse than the "Tough," but for different reasons. No matter how I fiddled with focus point and other settings, I found it almost impossible to get any pix while riding that weren't blurry beyond use. Oh, and the vids were purple! So, I gave that to Kathi; she's Polish and easily pleased. [As an example, she loves the shop vac. So I bought her a mini one and gave it to her as a "present" when she came home from her last grandbaby trip. She loved it. Go figure. My first wife would have poisoned me.] The vids are an issue, but think I'll get her one of those "flip video" cams.

Well, what now?

Thought about the GoPro series, etc., but just thought them "too specific," as they are designed for motorsports. Recall that whatever I was to buy had to be available for grandbaby, yard, garden, whatever pix, too.

Decided to ask a neighbor, Greg, who is a serious wedding photographer, http://www.ptproofs.com/mp_includes/body.asp, to come over and discuss the matter. Kathi was working late, so much beer, bad-for-you food, and grunting followed. Showed Greg the Guzzis, the Ram mounts, some of my photo-pictorials, some of Daniel Kalal's, told him I was not Daniel Kalal, but said that I was curious what he might recommend given my rather broad requirements.

The result is that tonight, I'll bust the shrink-wrap on a Nikon D3000 DSLR. Not the fanciest DSLR -- and, in several respects, the loss-leader entry-level DSLR. But, the more I looked at it and compared features and costs, decided to go with it, coupled with an Nikkor 18-55mm lens.

Of course, proof's in the pix, not the jawing, so we shall see. Obviously, I've opted for a no-vid approach, but that was easy, as I am quite happy with high-quality stills. Also concerned about protecting the camera from all sorts of weather and road-environment issues. Bought a cheap ($17) wireless remote, but may have issues about placement (worried it's directional). But that's a detail. Was mighty impressed with phordman's results using a DSLR rig on his Norge, so I am hopeful. Will let you know how it turns out ... or doesn't! If bad news, I may just give up on on-board photography.

Here's more on the D3000 and the others I mentioned.

http://www.photoxels.com/nikon-d3000-review-photoxels/

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-r ... eview.html.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/r4/hero-cam ... part-2.htm

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-r ... eview.html

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-r ... eview.html

http://www.theflip.com/en-us/Products/mino.aspx


Bill

 

[RJVB]

Bill, just about that purple vid issue. It rings a bell, and I do think I've heard/read about it can be addressed in some manner. Have you researched that? Firmware update, or "simply" through Canon service (they apparently still address the "striping" issue that plagues a number of the Powershot A10 compacts from years ago).

Ahhh, lawyers, one might expect them to being used to think ahead Of course that "tap" function would be triggered continuously on a bike :mrgreen: though it *is* surprising it can turn itself back on :shock:
Would almost make one believe those stories that operators can turn your cell on remotely :silly:

 

[GTM®]

Bill, impressive that you'll be strapping a DSLR to the bike. You're camera purchases sound like my bike component purchases. :huh:

I'm assuming vibration will be a non-issue in the long run according to your neighbor? I'll be eager to SEE & hear how this all goes. Thanks for posting.

 

[Bluntly]

I'm interested as to how the Nikon 3000 lasts longterm on a Guzzi, my feeling is that there's way too much vibration for the camera to deal with. :?

I've been looking around at various photographic options and after my disastrous relationship with an Olympus tough 8000 (worked for less than 6 weeks and never even got to go on the Stelvio) I'm thinking of forgetting the idea of a camera for everything and going the GoPro Wide route for the bike and my Nikon D60 and it's various lens's for everything else...But I'd love to find the perfect allrounder, if it exists?

 

[Bill Hagan]

You may be right.

Before even "vibration" concerns, tho, I have become worried about mount stability/integrity, etc.

FWIW, there is an interesting thread about this -- actually, several -- on Pashnit, with the latest started by a Norge rider.

See, generally, http://www.pashnit.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24909

And, in particular, look at "edelweiss's" comments, here: http://www.pashnit.com/forum/showpost.p ... stcount=37

I was so scared riding only to the office the other day, with ony the tripod threads keeping the (HEAVY!) camera from kissing the street, that I have suspended testing 'til I can do better with a safe mounting system.

Bill

 

[RJVB]

If the tripod thread is metal, I'd not be overly concerned, as long as there's a sufficient base on which the camera rests. I presume the lens you put on is not one with its own tripod mount?!

Your best mounting option will probably something built on a tank bag ... but that would require decisions concerning the windscreen!