The word on Ping

[dloftus]

Took it on the freeway, 65mph in 6th gear (about 4k rpm) and PINNED it, all the way up to 100mph. Nothing. I kept trying, repeating it over and over again. after a few times, i got a clink or two. hmy: Who's bike is this again!? I will continue to report as the weather changes around here, but so far, 100% SUCCESS!

Excellent, you're welcome again. Good to have the knowledge now for those with problematic machines.

Also to note, testing here at my place gives ~2400' of elevation down to sea level in a matter of several minutes.

That was my next question .... would Marelli have build different mapping for different areas?

It's a proven fact that they do not... hence a large part of the problem, IMO.

Were these PC/AT revisions? If so, any insight on how you went about the revisions?

 

[GTM®]

Were these PC/AT revisions? If so, any insight on how you went about the revisions?

They were not, these were timing revisions on the ECU.

 

[vivo]

Well Clam and Todd...

It seems you guys have solved the "word on ping"... It can be corrected and is related to timing.... But WHY has the reflashed ECU corrected Andrews bike and what is different with the ECU of bikes that do not seem to be plagued with pinging?

I would be interested in seeing if a bike that does not ping can be made to ping if a "bad" ECU is installed?
Then I think the entire story would be known.

vivo

 

[GTM®]

But WHY has the reflashed ECU corrected Andrews bike and what is different with the ECU of bikes that do not seem to be plagued with pinging?
I would be interested in seeing if a bike that does not ping can be made to ping if a "bad" ECU is installed?
Then I think the entire story would be known.

It is safe to state that no two bikes are ever alike, i.e. casting/machining/assembly tolerances, so assuming a baseline between is pretty impossible (though this is *always* assumed). That said, there is no "bad" ECU. I corrected the pinging on Andrew's bike with timing corrections on the ECU. Almost all others that have minimal issues, I have also resolved on my basic re-flash. Andrew's took slightly more aggressive correction, but also keep in mind his motor has been modified as well.

 

[Mi_ka]

Many degrees or just trimming? At certain tps/rpm areas or extensively through thte maps?
Could the crankshaft(?) position sensor of this bike be a little ... insensitive or slightly misplaced or the sensing distance be just a tad bigger than specs so the sensing takes place a few degrees later than ought to?

 

[Spaceclam]

Although my motor had been modified, IT didn't ping any differently after the modification.

But as to WHY mine needed extra attention to run like it should?

Simple. Everything i own is a basket case. This is a well documented fact. No matter what i buy, i ALWAYS end up having to fix all kinds of things. Had the bike been bought by somebody else, they would not have these issues.

Basically, mine (and a few others) ping under high throttle conditions, usually above 4k rpms, some slightly below, and it's real problematic. It's hard to say whether it's timing related or not, because unless the spark is actually what's setting the mixture off too early, then the effect of reducing timing is reducing heat. Reducing ambient air temp also cured the problem.

Basically through Todd's re-programming and 6 hours of torture-testing on my end, we were able to isolate the issue to about half throttle and above, with mild corrective action between 3 and 5.5k rpm. More corrective action was placed between 4 and 5k. Also, the extent of the corrective action is temp related. As in, at 68, the correction is mild. By 77, it's more agressive and by 86, the action is fairly aggressive.

Because of the conditions set for the timing reductions (and the fact that pinging robs you of power), you can't feel the difference.

 

[vivo]

Andrew...

Can I ask a few questions? I saw an earlier post where you had your engine apart and the piston was pretty filthy... was that carbon? When you milled the heads and re assembled the motor were you able to clean that stuff away?

What brand of gas do you usually or always purchase and has that been consistant? I am wondering if it has been a mistake for me to have been using Sunoco 93 octane in my engine? Would I likely get LESS deposits had I used 89 octane instead? Or do you think this is a non issue with regard to pinging? The reason I ask is that I've heard the lower octane burns faster and that it may be using the higer octane leaves more deposits as the flame spread is slower or have I got this wrong?

Any feeling as to what brand fuel leaves the least crap in your engine?

I don't have a serious pinging problem as I have said... I haven't yet taken my bike to Ferracci, that will be this weekend. I think by next spring I will just do Todd's full system, nothing much else to play with on my bike...

I still wonder why your bike has acted very differently from mine, doubt you have a curse on your stuff... there has to be a reason for the differences? I get "light" pinging and only between 4 and 5 thousand... I can nail it hard after that and it will not ping at all! Between 4 and maybe 4500 I need to hammer it for it to ping and It doesn't even always ping but it will on occasion.

vivo

 

[Spaceclam]

Usually either shell or chevron, due to geographical convenience. Sometimes, before my SMM rides i fill up at a 76 station near the entrance to the area.

When it's convenient, i fill up at the chevron by my girlfriend's house (conveniently located on my way home from school), because it has one hose for each octane, so you dont get a half gallon of regular in each 4 gallon tank of premium. It helps SLIGHTLY.

I would have to assume the pistons were carbon coated. Much of my commuting is via street. I get out and ride it whenever i can, but most of my miles are commute miles, of which about a third/half are probably freeway.

I cleaned up as much as i could, with a vacuum and some scotchbrite. IT did not make a difference, but i thought i'd try. I imagine that leaning things out at low rpm would probably help a bit. The higher the temp of the surface, the less carbon will form, up till about 900F i think is the number, but of course you dont want ANY aluminum surfaces getting that hot. That's why companies add detergents.



You should go todd's full system anyway. Best $1000 i ever spent.