Dead battery in 8V already?

[r00]

It's been a crazy weekend in Los Angeles, so I haven't written the Griso since last Friday. This morning I try to start it up, and it just kinda pretends to crank over. Has the battery drained out already? It took a little longer than usual to start up on Friday, but I didn't think letting it sit for three to four days would drain the rest of the way. I'm gonna take the battery out when I get home and charge it up just to be sure.

Do you guys with Grisos keep a battery tender charging it up constantly, or only use it when necessary?

 

[GuzziHero]

My battery ran great for months, then I left it for 4-5 weeks and it wouldnt start.

You say it sounds lazy turning over? When my G11 battery was flat it'd simply, click and wouldnt even attempt a start. I could be very wrong but your problem may lie elsewhere.

I then bought one of Todd's batteries and it is so full of WIN, I am amazed there's room for any electrolyte.

Oh, just to add... I do not use any form of optimizer, and I remove the main fuse if it stands for more than 4 weeks, or 2 weeks in winter.

 

[SMChris]

I had a problem with my G11 when new, it turned out to be a bad connection at the battery terminal. Once cleaned and reconnected it has been fine ever since.

 

[r00]

Yes, it sounds lazy as it is cranking, and then it just runs out of juice. There's no click at all, just seems to run out. The voltmeter says it's at around 10. I'll take out the battery tonight and clean the terminals as well, and we'll see what happens tomorrow morning!

 

[GuzziHero]

If you clean the terminals, don't scratch off all the lead-coloured (it may actually be lead, I dont know) coating on the terminals. Put some petroleum jelly/vaseline on them to protect them as well.

There is also an earth tag that you could clean which may help. Remove the starter motor cover, it's under there.

 

[r00]

Looks like it was just a dead battery. Started up this morning great! Whew. I'm still kinda surprised that it needed charging after only three months of daily use.

 

[Penis Rotor]

It shouldn't do. Chances are it wasn't put into service properly.

Unlike an *ordinary* lead-acid battery you can't simply put the acid in and go. With these type, which I thought were a gel-mat type but I'm not sure now, you HAVE to add the acid at least a couple of hours before it is used for the first time to allow the fluid to totally impregnate the plates. I usually leave 'em overnight and then give them a couple of hours trickle charge before putting 'em in the bike. Failure to do this will mean that when the bike is started some of the acid will be blurted out on the nice new paintwork and the plates will warp causing a weak battery and premature failure.

When they first started using these batteries there were so many warranty claimes from shops where people didn't know their jobs and couldn't read instruction leaflets that they issued a service bulletin about it and said any batteries NOT put into service properly wouldn't be warrantied. It seems that as usual the same people who can't readan instruction leaflet are incapable of reading a service bulletin either! :roll:

Pete

 

[r00]

I have a Parts Unlimited Maintenance Free 12V battery in my Griso, so it's sealed and I don't need to add anything to it. To charge it fully, 1.5A for ~10hrs or 3.6 for ~3hrs on the battery itself. And of course I have a 750mA charger, so it took two days. But the voltmeter in the Griso shows that it's all good when running at 13-14.

 

[r00]

Ya.... so something is definitely not right. Tried starting it up this morning, no go. Would try to crank, then a click, and nothing. Voltmeter shows 10.8-11 when turned on, 13-14 when running. Any ideas? I'm gonna re-tighten the terminals when I get home, and maybe charge it up again, but it shouldn't go down that quick, probably loose wire somewhere?

 

[312griso8v]

But the voltmeter in the Griso shows that it's all good when running at 13-14.

The 13-14VDC when it's running is the alternator charging voltage and doesn't necessarily indicate your battery is functioning normally (If your battery is bad, your engine will still run normally because the alternator will produce the power it needs to keep it running, which is opposite when your alternator goes bad). In my experience with lead-acid batteries, if the battery has ever been significantly drained down, it won't ever run properly and I always recommend my customers just replace the batteries if the batteries get drained too low..

http://www.yuasabatteries.com/motorcycle.php?action=showListing#formanchor

This link seems to indicate it's a lead-acid battery, but I'm not 100% sure...

I could be wrong, I'm not a Guzzi tech.. but I figured some input is better than none...

My suggestion to you, try replacing the battery with a new Yuasa. If for some reason it keeps getting drained down, there is a parasitic drain somewhere, I believe there are ways to track and find the drain... that'd be digging back into my automotive days and really testing my memory. Good luck!

-Phil

 

[GuzziHero]

I would say that, generally, Griso's are CRAP winter bikes.

I MOT'd my G11 on the 6th. Tried to start it today, nothing. And this is with the battery I got from Todd.

Grisos do NOT hold their charge as soon as the weather starts going cold. Whether its a problem with the bike or the battery, I don't know. But it looks like as soon as it starts going below 10C at night, you need to take your master fuse out EVERY TIME you park up for 5 days.

This bike is tries f'n hard to make me hate it, sometimes.

 

[r00]

Just a general update on the battery situation.. It's dead again. This is about a month since I last charged it, and I ride 5-6 days a week.. I'm going to pick up a brand new Yuasa to replace the Parts Unlimited one..

 

[kiwi dave]

If you ride it 5-6 days a week, I suggest you check the charging circuitry. You should not have to manually charge the battery at all with this frequency of riding.

 

[r00]

If you ride it 5-6 days a week, I suggest you check the charging circuitry. You should not have to manually charge the battery at all with this frequency of riding.

You think it's the battery tender, not the battery? I'm unfamiliar with the term, charging circuitry.

 

[Trogladyte]

I had a series of problems with starting and batteries in the first six months of owning my Griso. The dealer said that Guzzi wouldn't accept warranty claims on batteries in the first year or first few months or some such oddness. It sounded bizarre to me - if it's faulty, then....it's faulty isn't it? Anyway - it was largely accademic as the dealer found me another battery - twice - and warrantied the starter motor. That'll be the same new starter motor that now (after 11k miles) stays engaged for a second or two after starting, and sounds like a tortured metallic banshee, or someone engaging the pedal drive on an FS1E at speed...

 

[john zibell]

If you ride it 5-6 days a week, I suggest you check the charging circuitry. You should not have to manually charge the battery at all with this frequency of riding.

You think it's the battery tender, not the battery? I'm unfamiliar with the term, charging circuitry.

"Charging circuitry" means the charging system on your bike, i.e. alternator and connections.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Look Guys, there are a few things here.

'If it goes wrong Guzzi should warranty it!' Why? Sure if its a faulty battery they should and then they bill Yuasa. BUT faulty batteries are rare, NONE of the ones I've prepared for service of the type used in the modern bikes, and I've done a few, have. As I said before those that DO fail prematurely have almost always been prepped and put into service wrongly. That ISN'T the factory's fault. There are clear, written instructions given with the battery on how it should be put into service. If these aren't followed then you can't blame Guzzi OR Yuasa. So why the hell should THEY pay for someone elses idiocy? Guzzi WILL honour warranty on batteries, but ONLY if when they submit the claim the bloke who installed it explains what he did. That's the way it works here anyway.

Secondly if you do a search on starting issues you'll find a HOST of suggestions regarding not only making sure the battery posts are clean and un-corroded but also the importance of making sure that the mounting point of the earth strap behind the starter cover is also clean and un-corroded. Before you start shrieking 'Warranty' this and 'Warranty' that hows about getting out a 4mm allen key and a 13mm spanner and just having a look? It will take five minutes of your life. Otherwise take it back to the dealer and ask them to check it but PLEASE?? do we have to have these long, grumbling posts about minor issues that people blither and rave about stuff that is mindlessly easy to check yourself? It is neither rocket science, time consuming or difficult. Just do it.

Mike Haven has also written a very good article on how to circumvent the age old problem that still exists with the odd way the solenoid and starter get power, even on the *New* motors. That sometimes causes problems, (I have yet to see it mind.) but the sollution has been given and explained.

If the starter is remaining engaged after the motor is started then there is a problem with either the dash or the ECU. I'm not sure which it is that controls the starting sequence but once the engine speed gets above idle, ie >1200rpm, then the starter is supposed to be disengaged. Either the idle is too low or there is a fault with the component that supposedly controls the cut-off. My guess is that this would be the dash taking a reading from the phase sensor also used to calculate the tacho reading. Before shrieking 'Warranty' on the dash try simply re-setting the factory parameters with Axone/Navigator. Will this cure it? Who knows but its worth a try! Also check for any stored or active errors. That's what the tooling is for. Not to simply look pretty. It may be a fairly shitty tool but not using it and then saying "Wah! Got sand in me 'Gina!" is spectacularly pointless.

Cold weather has precisely NO effect on either of my modern bikes with regard to starting or running. It gets plenty cold here in winter and I've left them both for up to ten days when night time temperatures were well into the negative single figures centigrade and when I stick the key in and press the button they both fire straight up. The one time my Griso HAS flattened its battery completely was when Jude and I were in the US in August this year, we were away for four weeks at the coldest time of the year and I forgot to take the 30A fuse out so there was a parasitic drain from the immobilizer that drained the battery. It was flat as a tack when we got back! A night on the charger and it was right as rain and hasn't missed a beat again. The 'Prila fired straight up without a hitch.

If, once running, the charge rate is being indicated at 13.7-14.3V it is unlikely to be an alternator problem. I'm still betting a billabong full of rusty bunyips that most of these non-startng problems are simply down to dirty earth strap mounts. Check it and see if the problem goes away!

Pete

 

[Spaceclam]

Thought id chime in here.

Lead acid batteries discharge themselves quite fast, but should still have most of their charge after a week or so.
Cold temps drop the voltage of the battery at rest. Warm temps increase it.
Cold temps reduce the amount of charge that can be used in the battery. Warm temps increase it.

Secondly, the cold weather has no appreciable effect on the bikes themselves which causes battery drain, other than thickening the oil just a smidge, causing slightly higher starting inrush current upon starting. Unless it's really cold or your battery is on the edge, this wont matter much.

It seems like the ecus have the low voltage start cutoff set far too low. The computer says no even when the battery says maybe.

But it concerns me how fast my less than 1 year old has degraded, just like my stock battery. The battery was replaced with a stock unit, however it was not purchased through the dealer. When new, it used to read 12.4v with the headlamp on, waiting to start. Now, it reads 11.9-12v, depending on the temperature. If anyone has a suggestion for a battery that lasts more than a year of daily driving, im all ears. Yes, i know that increasing my CR increases cranking power. The first battery was on it's way out before this modification.

Upon replacing the battery, the new battery was drained to 11v and then peak charged prior to service.

Yes, i have cleaned and protected the terminals. I have replaced the battery lead tabs (as the stock ones crack right off) with SOFT copper (not their nickel plated strain harnened crap they provide).

My personal belief is that the starter is a poor match for the motor. Perhaps a cooler wind, or a lower ratio are in order

 

[r00]

Surprised that my location is not in my information! I must have left that out.. I'm in Los Angeles, where cold weather is a myth. At least weather that's below 50 Fahrenheit.

I can usually tell when the battery is getting really drained, and can estimate when it will not start at all, as in, it'll take more than a couple cranks of the starter to kick the bike to life, as opposed to the one or two cranks when the battery is freshly charged.

Terminals and ground straps are cleaned and non-corroded, I did that a while ago. One thing a friend mentioned, is that while I drive it frequently, the length of time I drive it is short! My commute's 6 miles roundtrip, so I do those everyday, and he mentioned that the stator may not be able to charge it fully. The Griso does have a stator, not an alternator, right? Could this explain it dying every month or so? He said I should give it a good run on the weekends, more than just a couple miles, and that hopefully might be able to keep the battery topped up.

 

[john zibell]

r00,

The stator is part of the alternator. It is the part that doesn't turn, but has wires that the magnetic rotor (the part that does turn) induces current in. Three miles just might not be enough time to recharge after a start. I don't like to take teh bike out unless I'm going at least 10 miles. Invest in a good trickle charger and use it every few days, or every third day take a 20-30 mile ride. Probably more fun to take the ride.