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Griso Fast Idle /Also switching from metric to US

Dervish

Just got it firing!
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
19
Location
Keizer, Oregon, USA
Hey fellow Guzzisti, I am new to the forum but not to Guzzi - previously owned a Norge, Cali 75 and Sport 1100i. I just picked up a sweet '07 Griso with only 2K miles and Agostini pipe (which looks great but is too loud -- trades?). Problem is the fast idle issue I've searched and found some info on here. Questions:

1) Are all these fast idle issues due to the stepper motor issue? Even with so few miles/kms?

2) If so, where are the directions on how to resolve this issue myself - a site link would be great as I couldn't find any step by step directions.

Had to ride the bike in a couple of hours of stop and go traffic last night and it was NOT fun with the fast idle.

Also, how do I switch the instrumentation from metric to non-metric (US)? Does the dealer have to do this? Didn't see anything in the manual.

THANKS!!!

Dervish
 
I don't know how to fix your idle issue, I'm sure others on here can help you but if you put in the service code 12425 in the menu on your bikes instrument cluster you will be able to change km to mph. hope that helps
 
Moto510 wrote:
I don't know how to fix your idle issue, I'm sure others on here can help you but if you put in the service code 12425 in the menu on your bikes instrument cluster you will be able to change km to mph. hope that helps

Thanks, Moto510, I entered that but it didn't take (and I exited out properly). Then I tried to enter it again and it asked me to "Enter Old Code", which I don't have. What is the standard code? Thanks!

- Scott
 
are you talking about the user code or the service codes?
to reset the user code do the following and then use the code I gave before to get into the service menu
Page 19 in the user manual

This function is used when the old code is
not available and you need to change it. In
this case it is necessary to insert at least
two keys in the ignition switch. The first key
is already inserted, a second key is
requested with the message:
"INSERT THE 2nd KEY"
The instrument panel remains on inbetween
these two keys; if the second key
is not inserted within 20 seconds the
operation is aborted. When the second key
is acknowledged, the new code is
requested with the message:
"INSERT THE NEW CODE"
Once the operation is over, the display
goes back to DIAGNOSIS menu. If you
entered with the code, this operation will
not be allowed.
Once the operation is over, the instrument
panel goes back to SETTINGS menu.
 
Moto510 wrote:
are you talking about the user code or the service codes?
to reset the user code do the following and then use the code I gave before to get into the service menu

This function is used when the old code is
not available and you need to change it. In
this case it is necessary to insert at least
two keys in the ignition switch. The first key
is already inserted, a second key is
requested with the message:
"INSERT THE 2nd KEY"
The instrument panel remains on inbetween
these two keys; if the second key
is not inserted within 20 seconds the
operation is aborted. When the second key
is acknowledged, the new code is
requested with the message:
"INSERT THE NEW CODE"
Once the operation is over, the display
goes back to DIAGNOSIS menu. If you
entered with the code, this operation will
not be allowed.
Once the operation is over, the instrument
panel goes back to SETTINGS menu.

Great, thanks for the info. I just discovered that what the seller thought was the magical 2nd key was in fact more of a disc lock key - definitely not the correct one. I just emailed him but he's on vacation for a few weeks so I'll have to wait until he gets back....or maybe the dealer can change it without the 2nd key?

Thanks!

- Scott
 
Dervish

Assuming that your stepper motor isn't faulty and that the idling speed problem is due to incorrect tuning procedures then, yes, I do know how to correct the idling speed and posted the method a while back. It requires access to vacuum balancing equipment and VDSTS or Axone equipment for resetting the TPS. Try a search for my post about tuning a Breva. The Griso is similar.
 
Dervish

These are the instructions I made for myself for tuning both my bikes and may save you time searching.

VDSTS on PC laptop with XP for tuning Breva V1100 and Buell XB12Ss

When tuning the Buell, remove the 15A light circuit fuse to reduce battery drain. The Breva’s lights don’t come on until the engine is running so no need to remove its fuse.

The standard cable supplied with VDSTS is for connection to a laptop 9-pin serial port. A serial to USB cable can also be used if the laptop has only a USB port. That cable may need a software driver to be installed in order to function.

Install VDSTS from the VDSTS CD. Open the progression of relevant VDSTS subfolders and then the one for XP. Open it and click the setup.exe icon to install VDSTS.

Once installed, use the desktop icon to launch VDSTS.

On the first window to appear press the English language button.

On the next screen to appear click on the Communication tab at the screen top and from the drop-down menu click Port Setting. A window will appear and at the top of it a panel labelled VDST with up/down arrows beside it. Move through to choose the appropriate Com port you are to connect through and click OK. Unless you know the Com port number you may need to re-visit this to get connection the bike.

With the cables connected to the bike and laptop and the kill switch on Run, turn on the ignition and click the bike icon button (Brand/Ecu/Model) and then VDSTS will automatically search for and identify the Ecu type and show the type on the screen bottom. For Breva MM IAW5AM. For Buell VDO – EFI.

Now press the HotSync button to connect VDSTS to the Ecu. Once connection is confirmed, all the buttons along the top of the screen will become active.

Press the dials button (Gauges/Meters) to display data including the TPS reading. Open the throttle progressively and the TPS reading should respond accordingly. For the Breva - 4.5ºto 4.9º with closed throttle and 84.2º to 84.5º fully open. For the Buell 5.1º to 6.2º with closed throttle and 85º fully open.

NB The Buell needs the throttle plate to be sticking shut firmly in the bore when a reset is done. This is achieved by backing off the idle stop cable several turns so that when the throttle is allowed to snap shut it sticks slightly when asked to open. The Breva has the left throttle plate factory set at 4.5ºto 4.9º and the idle stop screw must not be touched at all.

TPS resetting

To reset the TPS, press the screwdriver button (Active Settings) and then select TPS Reset from the tabs towards the screen top. That will take VDSTS to two windows where resetting the TPS are dealt with but only the left window is active. Press the TPS/screwdriver button and a warning will come up that resetting the TPS will affect the engine operation. Press OK and to the right of the screwdriver icon a seconds count-down will appear and when finished Pass should appear together with an ECU Reset window. This window will invite you to turn the ignition off for at least 13 seconds and then to turn the ignition on again. When done, press OK.

Return to the Gauges/Meters screen and the reset TPS reading will show. In the case of the Breva that should be 4.5ºto 4.9º and for the Buell 0.0º At this stage the Breva is done, but the Buell now needs to have the throttle stop re-adjusted so that the TPS reads between 5.2º and 5.6º to ensure the correct idling speed. When the engine is fully warmed theBuell’s idling speed can be adjusted further to give 1,050rpm on the revcounter.

VDSTS also can be used to clear stored error messages, to check the functioning of several electronic components, and for the Breva, to adjust the fuel trim.


Throttle vacuum balancing on Breva

Start the engine and warm to about 60 degrees C and then stop it.

Remove the M6 blanking screws on the outer sides of both throttle bodies and fit vacuum hose nipples. Connect vacuum gauge hoses to the nipples and close both throttle-body air-bleed screws so any vacuum balancing won’t be influenced by the air bleeds.

Start the engine and gradually increase the speed to a steady 3,000 RPM. If the vacuum readings at 3,000 RPM are not within 1cm Hg of each other the balance will need to be adjusted and the TPS reset again.

Vacuum balance is adjusted using the adjusting screw on the left end of the link rod. The rod length should not be altered by moving the ball joint ends because that can affect the parallel movement of the throttle levers and give unequal opening as the throttles are opened further.

Stop the engine and re-run the VDSTS TPS resetting procedure. This is essential because any adjustment of the link rod will have moved the TPS position at the same time. The VDSTS tells the TPS to treat its physical position as being base in relation to the mechanically-stopped left throttle.

Start the engine and at idle fine-tune the Hg balance by opening only the air bleed on the side with the lower Hg reading.


Resetting the Breva’s “sacred” throttle-stop screw if tampered with

Close both air bypass screws.
Using VDSTS reset the TPS as normal.
Using a vacuum gauge set, balance the vacuum at 2,500 - 3,000rpm as normal.
Reset the TPS again.
Use the air bypass screws to balance the idling vacuum as normal.
The idling speed may now be too high or too low. To cure that, adjust the stop screw to produce 1100rpm and then do yet another TPS reset and finally adjust the already-opened air bypass screw to perfect idling balance.

End
 
Thanks, Graham, but I don't have access to such equipment. I guess it's off to the dealer, which seems silly after just 2,500 miles! Gone are the old days of turning the idle screw, I guess. Was hoping there was some idle adjustment on this as well.

Cheers,

- Scott
 
Re:Griso Fast Idle /Also switching from metric to

Dervish:

These bikes are very easy to tune. I learned to tune my Guzzi by following Graham's instructions above. You can pick up a VDSTS from Todd (RacerX on this forum). It runs around $195 US I think. You will get your money back very quickly. At least for my B11, I found I had to retune a good bit until about 7,500 miles. These motors tend to have a long break in. There are plenty of TB/Carb balancing tools out there. I use a CarbMate.
 
Re:Griso Fast Idle /Also switching from metric to

One more very important item: Do not touch the "Sacred Screw." It is under the left TB and resembles what might be an idle screw. Search this forum for more details if you plan to do your own tune.
 
Re:Griso Fast Idle /Also switching from metric to

To go from Km to MPH is very easy and requires only one key.

Put the handlebar switch in 'Mode' and hit 'Menu' and hold the button down.

Follow the drop down menu to 'Diagnostics' and press the button. Then you enter 12425 and hold the button down.

another drop down will appear with options for Km/MPH and farenheight or centigrade etc,

Scroll to what you want, hold the button down and you'll get the choice. pick your choice and then retreat out of the menus.

Pete
 
Re: Re:Griso Fast Idle /Also switching from metric to US

GrahamNZ said:
Dervish

Press the dials button (Gauges/Meters) to display data including the TPS reading. Open the throttle progressively and the TPS reading should respond accordingly. For the Breva - 4.5ºto 4.9º with closed throttle and 84.2º to 84.5º fully open. For the Buell 5.1º to 6.2º with closed throttle and 85º fully open.
Throttle vacuum balancing on Breva

Start the engine and warm to about 60 degrees C and then stop it.

Remove the M6 blanking screws on the outer sides of both throttle bodies and fit vacuum hose nipples. Connect vacuum gauge hoses to the nipples and close both throttle-body air-bleed screws so any vacuum balancing won’t be influenced by the air bleeds.



End

Hi Graham, Do you know if the TPS setting is the same for the 2007 1100 Griso 4.5 to 4.9 ? and where are the air bleed screws on the Griso ?

I took the Griso to the dealer because I find it runs very lumpy at low rpm and someone had already turned the balance screw so I thought I'd let them fix it but the guy at the dealer told me once the seal on the balance screw has been broken and the screw turned there is now way to find the original setting back and I'd have to buy new throttle bodies, I'm sure the guy hadn't heard of the VDSTS anyway it's still very snatchy so I need to know how to do it myself. Thanks for the info.


Gr. Steve.
 
Re: Re:Griso Fast Idle /Also switching from metric to US

hugzy said:
GrahamNZ said:
Dervish

Press the dials button (Gauges/Meters) to display data including the TPS reading. Open the throttle progressively and the TPS reading should respond accordingly. For the Breva - 4.5ºto 4.9º with closed throttle and 84.2º to 84.5º fully open. For the Buell 5.1º to 6.2º with closed throttle and 85º fully open.
Throttle vacuum balancing on Breva

Start the engine and warm to about 60 degrees C and then stop it.

Remove the M6 blanking screws on the outer sides of both throttle bodies and fit vacuum hose nipples. Connect vacuum gauge hoses to the nipples and close both throttle-body air-bleed screws so any vacuum balancing won’t be influenced by the air bleeds.



End

Steve,


Hi Graham, Do you know if the TPS setting is the same for the 2007 1100 Griso 4.5 to 4.9 ? and where are the air bleed screws on the Griso ?

I took the Griso to the dealer because I find it runs very lumpy at low rpm and someone had already turned the balance screw so I thought I'd let them fix it but the guy at the dealer told me once the seal on the balance screw has been broken and the screw turned there is now way to find the original setting back and I'd have to buy new throttle bodies, I'm sure the guy hadn't heard of the VDSTS anyway it's still very snatchy so I need to know how to do it myself. Thanks for the info.


Gr. Steve.

Get the 1100 Breva service manual in the downloads section. It shows the position of all screws. The only screw that should not be adjusted is the throttle stop screw. You are suppose to turn the balance screw to get the high speed sync. Maybe you need a different Guzzi mechanic.

Also the Griso manuals are listed in the download section and they list the TPS angle. Should be the same as the 1100 Breva, 4.5 degrees or so. VDSTS will set it electronically for you, you can't adjust the TPS manually like the 15M bikes.
 
Thanks for the info guys, I downloaded the Griso workshop manual but I still cant find the TPS setting although the Breva manual does show it. If I understand this correctly, when I run the VDSTS will the computer set the throtle position angle ? or do I do that with the balance screw ? does the stepper motor hold the throtle in the correct position ? Don't seem like I can trust the Guzzi dealer anyway. What does the stepper motor bypass thingy actually do ? Is it easy enough to fit ?

Gr. Steve.
 
hugzy said:
Thanks for the info guys, I downloaded the Griso workshop manual but I still cant find the TPS setting although the Breva manual does show it. If I understand this correctly, when I run the VDSTS will the computer set the throtle position angle ? or do I do that with the balance screw ? does the stepper motor hold the throtle in the correct position ? Don't seem like I can trust the Guzzi dealer anyway. What does the stepper motor bypass thingy actually do ? Is it easy enough to fit ?

Gr. Steve.

Steve,

You are making this more complicated than it is.

The VDSTS software sets the TPS electronically after all adjustment are made for synchronization. The electronic set tells the ECU that at this position the throttle is closed so the relative angle is 4.5 +/- .2 degrees. VDSTS will report this angle after you do the reset. The throttle angle is set at the factory which is why the manual says not to touch the idle stop screw. The air bypass screws are to be closed while doing the high speed sync, then only open the side with the greatest vacuum to get sync at idle. The stepper motor only allows extra air into the circuit to raise the idle. It is not a mechanical stepper like on the BMW R1200 bikes.
 
Thanks for that John, There is another Guzzi dealer near Rotterdam, I'll find out whether they have the VDSTS and know how to use it, in the mean time i'll look into getting it for myself. Cheers.

Steve.
 
hugzy said:
Thanks for that John, There is another Guzzi dealer near Rotterdam, I'll find out whether they have the VDSTS and know how to use it, in the mean time i'll look into getting it for myself. Cheers.

Steve.

The dealer should be using Navigator. It also can update the map in the ECU when new ones are released. VDSTS can not do that. VDSTS is more for the serious owner/small independent shop.
 
A friend of mine has a Griso with 13400 miles and the fast idle issue describe here. How can one tell if it is the stepper motor as mentioned in a previous post?
 
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