Another New Norge

[guzzibob]

.... Though personally I prefer Michelin Pilot Road 2's over Roadsmarts for the much greater tire life.

You know, one of these days you just might talk me into trying those Michelins, but I just got a new set of Road Smarts this week, so I'm OK for another 7,000 miles

jdg

Just so your expectations are realistic-I got 6500 front & rear on Roadsmarts. On the MIchelins, 7200 rear, just over 11000 on the front. And mostly touring rather than sporting usage. Used that way, just down to the wear bands in the center, plenty of tread left on the sides.

 

[guzzibob]

GB, thanks for the info. I found the first sticky (GT-RX ECU) but not the other one. The first sticky has lots of information and lots of positive comments as you said. But for me there's too much info and I'm scratching my head over all the abbreviations and terms (02/lambda input? sensor offset? Adaptive capabilities of the closed-loop PC-V & AutoTune??). So I'd like to ask if somebody could please send me an Email or PM and explain, in basic terms, what these mods are and how to go about it? Do I install the stuff myself? Do I need to hook up to a computer or is it good to go? I'm not much of a mechanic anymore and used to the Ducati method: buy a Termignoni kit (including airbox mod and ECU), and just let the dealer put it in. Pricy, but simple! And I probably know the answer to this one: Can't a real good MG dealer properly do this work and make these mods? I'd be worried about warranty issues as well as my ability.

The suspension mods sound like the best thing that I can do to my Norge. I still do not see this bike as a sport bike but maybe with the suspension mods that opinion will change a bit?

The other sticky regarding PC-V/Autotune is titled "Custom Power Commender V Limited Run" and is immediately above the GT-RX ECU one that you found. The initial post there explains what each piece of the mods do. I'll try to state it here:
1)ECU replaces the stock air-fuel map, which is insanely lean at lower throttle settings & rich up high with a map that is about what your Guzzi needs to run at it's best. I say "about" because each bike is a little different as it comes from the factory, more so than you might think, & gets more different everytime you make some kind of modification that effects how it runs.
2)The custom PC-V enables the user to adjust the A-F (air-fuel) mixtures for the particulars of your bike & conditions based on seat of the pants feel or better by going to a dyno equipped Dynajet tuning center able to make adjustments-but if you get the PC-V without getting the GT-RX ECU, the stock ECU blocks any of these changes in the lower 40% of the throttle-exactly where we do most of our riding, & where correction is needed the most. If you also get the GT-RX ECU than that "block" is removed & you can make changes anywhere.
3)Add in the Auto tune & the PC-V can use the readings from an oxygen sensor (lambda or O2 sensor) in your exhaust to make changes on the fly, as you ride, adjusting for altitude, temp, any mods to the bike, any differences from bike to bike, you name it. IE, the best of all worlds, a bike being the best that it can be no matter what the conditions & how you ride.

There's a bit more to it, but that's it in a nutshell. The GT-RX ECU makes a huge difference, the PC-V/Autotune another huge improvement beyond that. I am lucky eough to live near Todd (aka GT-RX) near LA so I just rode in to his garage, waited while he made the map changes to my ECU while in the bike, & at a later date added on the PC-V & Autotune, & made the necessary changes using his laptop. You would have to pull the ECU from your bike, mail to Todd, he will reflash & mail back to you along with whatever else you get (generally within a week), you reinstall ECU plus PC-V/Autotune if you get that, then need to do some computer stuff. If you contact Todd, hopefully he can put you in touch with someone at least vaguely near where you live who has already done it & can walk you through it. In any case he is certainly available by phone/Internet to answer any questions you have. Based upon the poistings I have seen some folks have some initial questions/problems but they all eventually get where they need to be. To me getting the ECU alone is certainly worth doing. Getting PC-V/AT without the ECU makes no sense since you can't get at the part of the fueling that most needs it. Getting the PC-V without the AT makes no sense because then you are left playing with premade maps that are always a compromise or going to a Dyno/tuning center to get the best result-& then everytime you make a mod you wind up doing it again. So I would say, either do it all or do just the ECU, if you decide you want the rest later that can always be done without any wasted effort.

As for the warranty thing, I understand where you are coming from. In theory there should be no impact on making these changes on your bike, but if something comes up & Piaggio wants to be a pill, this does give them an excuse. In my case I decided to wait until the warranty expired, & in any case it was only just as my warranty was ending that my Norge gradually began to ping more & more when hot & I felt I had to do something. That something was first the ECU alone, then after a while the PCV/AT as well. Which together made me wish I had done it all so much sooner.

As for suspension changes making your Norge in to a sport bike as you put it, all I can say is that even with my new suspension set up on the plush side, it has certainly moved from very much too plush & soft to at least capable sport touring, ie capable in the canyons but still plenty comfortable on the extended freeway slog. Just like with the ECU/PCV/AT, you will find your bike transformed.

Hope this all helps, I'll e-mail Todd to look here, add his 2 cents on the more technical stuff.

 

[GTM®]

Wow, well Bob covered most of it... thanks Bob(!).

In as simple terms as it can be put... Stage I would be my ECU re-flash. It entails you to remove the ECU, send it to me, await return and replace. It will require a dealer or the ->VDST Kit<-click for the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) to be reset (the same likely needed to happen on your Ducati Kit I suspect). The VDST is a must for the "do-it-yourself" home mechanic.

The PC-V & AutoTune is secondary, but offers full-time, real-time fueling for every second your bike is running... from idle to redline at every throttle position. It's some of the most amazing technology out there right now for active fueling. It will revise anything that you do to modify the bike with a few keystrokes. Keep in mind that these are a custom batch of Power Commanders that Dynojet built me/GuzziTech. I have <15 left.

Any other questions, feel free to reach me direct e-mail; Todd at GuzziTech.com

 

[misterg]

Todd,
Have been considering the ECU re-flash for my '08 Norge, but this is the first I've read, regarding the need for the VDST tool to set up the new ECU. So if I wanted to go for the ECU reflash, I'd also need to buy the VDST as well? An extra $250. minimum on top of the $500. for the ECU is a considerable additional expense; surprised I haven't heard it mentioned before... :huh:

 

[Martin]

In addition to this question I've an other one: my dealer set the TPS with the stock ecu (10.000km. service) and after that I've put the reflashed ecu back. It did feel if everything was allright (done 3500km. that way), but now I've checked the TPS with a VDST and I read 5,6. After a reset 4,6. Why this difference?

 

[guzzibob]

I gather Todd is out of town for a few days, & I don't see anyone else jumping in. In the interim, I'll take a shot.

I understand the TPS needs to be reset periodically as part of routine maintenance. I gather it has a tendency to move a bit on its own. That's with or without the new ECU. So anyone with a newer Guzzi would have to-or should-bring it to a dealer to reset, or get the VDST to do themselves, or locate another Guzzisti fairly nearby with a VDST to help them out anyway. Such is life in the computer age, & not just for Guzzis. How sensitive the bikes are to the odd movement is another matter. Anyway I presume Todd will pipe in when he gets home or otherwise logs in here.

Any of you more knowledgeable folk than me out there feel free to speak up & corrrect as needed, I don't do this kind of stuff myself cause I don't have to.

 

[Martin]

Ok, but I read it as "when you use my reflashed ecu, you allways have to reset the TPS". . .
That make sense to me according to the difference of 5,6 and 4,6, but why is that? I guess the TPS must be cheked periodically, but that difference in two weeks/3500 km sounds very weird to me.

 

[apexal]

Thanks to everybody for the information and the feedback. The more I read the better I understand but of course your feedback helps the most. One thing that I never realized was that there was the guzzitech.com web site that sold all this great gear. For some reason I thought that this was a forum only and that's how I got in touch with Todd. Silly me! Being a visual person it helps me to see the gear in the catalog format.

However, we're quickly entering winter here in New Hampshire so motorcycle starts taking a back seat to winter hiking and skiing. I'll look forward to jumping on this in the spring!