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My bike pings.

again, i dont think timing is an issue, but let's pretend that the timing is really late, and the fuel is igniting before the spark does.

That's bad, but the ignition isnt thecause. what you would be experiencing is called pinging. The fuel should NEVER light off until the spark does, regardless of how late the timing is.

Where exactly is the crankshaft position sensor, and what is the proper gap so that i might check it?

-Andrew
 
Spaceclam said:
Where exactly is the crankshaft position sensor, and what is the proper gap so that i might check it?
All covered in the Service Manual linked at the top of this page. The *camshaft* (not crank) sensor is on the left side upper front of the block (close to where that strange block-off plate on the 8V timing chest cover was).
 
Spaceclam:

When you talked about changing the plugs, I assume you changed the "long life" inner plaugs as well?

I had a lot of problems with my 1200 Sport pinging in summer time here in Australia, especially in stop start traffic. I got so worried I installed a cyclinder head temp gauge (see post: http://www.1200sport.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=733).

Anyway, I kept having the problem up till I had the updated map installed (BB01), after that no more problems. It hasn't pinged once, despite some hot days and really provocative throttle openings in the 2-3 range (just to test it). The cylinder head temps I read whilst riding don't seem to have changed much, perhaps a little lower (could be a placebo effect though), fuel economy seems to be the same. I wonder if the FI map is changed with these map changes or if it is just the ignition map?

I know you have changed the ECU, but have you tried one of these new maps? John doesn't list one for the 1100 Griso, but there is one for the breva (V12). As I understand it they are the same motor, just different airbox / exhaust. Don't know if they have different maps? I suppose they do, as the Norge and 1200 Sport are different....

Jason
 
DON'T UPDATE A MAP ON A FLASHED ECU. It'll basically ruin the changes Todd made to them.

On a side note, I changed the inner plugs at 30,000Km.
 
I dont know what map was on the bike when it was reflashed. I was unaware there were multiple maps available for the g11s. But if i think about it, Ill bet the kind and knowledgeable folks at Vespa TO didnt bother putting the new map on.

That being said, Todd, for your maps, do you alter the maps you pull off the ECU individually? If so, and if i had the original map installed, (which might have had different timing) then advancing the timing even more (based upon having the second map installed) could make things worse, beyond the ability of fueling to correct? That might explain why my bike pinged since it was new, but after putting on another stock ECU and trying it, it didnt ping at all?

It definatly wasnt the spark lighting things off, because it didnt/doesnt misbehave in cool weather. But perhaps the heat outside combined with the heat of the burn caused by the already advanced spark was enough to set things off?

That being said, when it isnt pinging, it runs SO much better with the PCV. Swapping the ECU allowed me a good opportunity to go from stock to fully modded and wring it out back to back. MAN what a difference.
 
Firstly, I dont have any knowledge of computer controlled systems .
But going back to basics.
Take your bike out ride it so it pings, turn off the ignition and roll to a stop dont let the engine slow down.
Now pull both outer plugs out and look at them ( do an old fashioned plug read)
So if the plug is black its too rich or you are not getting a full burn at ping point!
If the plug is dark brown it is slightly rich
If it is grey its fine.
If its white it is too lean and the plug is too hot.
My 1200 sport pinged and I did the above to find that it was fractionally lean so I went down 1 heat range in the outer 2 plugs job fixed!
Now the pinging was more pronounced in hot weather, we get many 40c days here in Auz.
If you want to be really picky then reinstall your warmer plugs for winter an see what happens .
I cannot imagine pistons and cylnder heads would have dags on the castings cuasing hot spots and hence preignition maybe in 1930.
I had the engine pipes ceramic coated when I first bought the bike, so they dont go rusty and look crap. But that would have nothing to do with pinging, as that is after ignition.
 
This thread is old. Clam and Todd solved the ping problem in another thread with timing and fueling changes. He tried changing the temperature of the plugs to no avail.
 
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