cam cover condensation

[knucklemoto]

Hi all, I'm Matt, new to the forum, having been browsing and learning here for a while.

I finally have my new bike - a Griso 8V se, and have already embarked on a personal journey of Illiad proportions. I will be sharing all with you over time, but for now I'd like to share some photos with you and seek some thoughts and input.

I took the cam covers off today and this is what met me, it's the same on both sides. I rode her twice yesterday, two 1/2 hour runs to collect my best friend for a wonderful xmas day of roast dinner and catch up time.

The bike is 2010, 200 miles...

Obviously it's an oil/water mix. I'm wondering if she needs to be ridden longer than the 30 - 40 minutes journeys I have made so far to burn the condensation off or if I need to look for a loose / disconnected breather somewhere. I'm not paranoid, it's just that my bike was put together by a monkey. On a friday. With a hangover. After being dumped... I'll share the rest of my Guzzi apprenticeship with you soon, this whole computer thing is a slow slog, it's late and Mr. Guinness has popped over. Also if anyone could point me to instructions on how to post more than one photo would be appreciated. I noticed a score mark on the inlet side of the covers from tangs under the bolt heads that keep the rocker assembly in place. I'll post a photo tomorrow ( maybe photos! ) and have a look at what I think may be causing it when its light. ( No garage... )

Thanks guys, and merry xmas / happy holidays to all.

Regards,

Matt.

 

[YBFAST]

Hey Matt,
Good to make your acquaintance!

Longer runs will dry out that "snot" this time of year. Can't wait to hear more about the new bike... keep on riding / posting

 

[john zibell]

This is common in cold weather on all Guzzis. With winter temperatures, it may not get hot enough to clear up no matter how long the ride is. It will go away in the summer.

 

[knucklemoto]

Thanks for the advice. I guessed it was a Guzzi trait, this is my first tractor so it's a learning curve.

The reasons I took the covers off in the first place, for those wondering why...

I wanted to have a look.

To paint the covers.

To check the valves.

Well I had a look, and liked what I saw. Tappets! Screw and locknut! But also some lovely machining and modern materials too, this is a far cry from the first Guzzi I rode - a V65 I think - about 20 years ago. I didn't check the valves as I've managed to lose my feeler gauges, so I'll try to pick a set up tomorrow. I did finish the painting however, and I'm very pleased with the results. Hopefully photos below...

Curing in the oven after painting... I was wary of creating a permanent paint odour in the oven, but went ahead anyway... today it's totally fine. The better half didn't blink at my madness and really likes the results.



Here's the result. I used PJ1 gloss black porcelain hard epoxy, and rotated all the 6 parts I painted through the oven to encourage curing. I left them on 50 deg. for a few hours, then stood them overnight in the kitchen, and this morning put them back on. More photos soon of the bike, I'm on duty the next two days, and it's dark ( and cold ) here in the UK.


I'm going to polish and finish them at the weekend... looking good...




I'm looking forward to more tinkering on my Guzzi. Just 250 miles so far... the beginning of a long relationship methinks.

Regards,

Matt.

 

[apexal]

Matt,

How about a photo of the painted covers installed on your Griso? Personally I like the idea of keeping a motorcycle as the designers intended and only making changes for comfort or performance. However, that awful Griso muffler is an exception and those foolish warning stickers need to go, too. But there's something to be said about those mods that make our bikes special and unique. So get those pictures posted!

Al

 

[jlburgess]

I think a score mark on the under side of the valve cover is used to indicate the cam recall has been done. Not sure why it would be there on a 2010 model, but it may have been done at the factory.
Don't be suprised if the valve clearance is very loose. I run mine + .05 mm from spec. They are usually +.10 on the first check. Loose valves are happy, else it will die at idle if too tight.
Enjoy the new ride!

 

[FrostBittenCanadian]

You realize epoxy is toxic?

 

[Cat City Rider]

Do you live alone? Most wives would have little tolerance for such nonsense.

 

[commando tod]

Get the same emulsification in my Griso 1100 `cos i`d been doin a 15 mile trip, twice a day, forever. Needs longer runs, but at the mo` it`s parked up cos of the shite weather and the road salt used in the UK.

 

[knucklemoto]

Thanks for the tappet advice, I'll check them on friday, when she's stone cold.

I'll also post photos of her new look and the score marks I mentioned in the cam covers. I'm aware of the cam issue but thought it done and dealt with. Can anyone explain what this little tang is for? There's one on each inlet side, on the inner rocker.



For those concerned with my health and relationship status - I painted the covers in the garden in a home made paint booth ( a large cardboard box with one side cut away ), wearing latex gloves and a respirator. The parts were put in the oven when non tacky. As for my young lady... she loves the fact I look after my bikes and fuss over their welfare... she get's spoilt too. Although I haven't put her in a box in the garden yet.

And the oven's fine.

I'm very grateful for all the information and advice here, and will share more photos and words soon.

Regards.

 

[Penis Rotor]

Can anyone explain what this little tang is for? There's one on each inlet side, on the inner rocker.

I think you'll find that the purpose of the little plates with the tangs on is to ensure that the studs remain pretty much central in the holes they go through in the cam-box, head and barrel. Oil is fed up the back stud to lubricate the rocker gear and cool the top end.

Pete

 

[guzzicrazy]

....or if I need to look for a loose / disconnected breather somewhere. Matt.

I am sure that air brings in you in the circuit of oil, the moisture becomes condensed and there you have it.

provisional solution

....and others problems like, dirty steeper motor beaucause this circuit comunicate whit air box

and you need clean this, are more easy, it is very easy disconnect it of the box of the air filter and with an espray of cleaning carburetors, 1st start the motorbike and then you put the espray for this pipe helping with the gas so that the engine does not stop ... repiete a few times and I list.

the same

 

[Penis Rotor]

There will always be lots of moisture getting into the engine. One of the main by-products of combustion is water and there is always some blow-by past the rings. Also as the motor cools it will draw in air from outside, once again bringing water into the case. If the engine doesn't get the oil hot enough for the water to sublime off it will remain in the oil and, as John said, the rocker covers, which are pretty well insulated from the head by their gaskets, will also tend to be cooler, especially in cold weather, and water vapour in the oil will condense on them.

Ride longer and harder. especially in cold weather!!!!! :twisted:

Pete

 

[knucklemoto]

Thanks all. Lot's of good info, and solid advice all round.

I have downloaded the service manual and am slowly chewing my way through anything / everything tech. I can find online, and am slowly becoming more familiar with my griso.

Today I am wrenching again, it's a lovely clear sky, no rain / snow, just cold. I will post photos this evening of the score marks in the cam covers to show you all.

My bike had a funny start to life... I part ex'd my BMW 1200RT, the dealer delivered my Griso before xmas on a crisp winter morning and I spent 5 hours going over her, nose to tail...

I mentioned before she was put together my a monkey etc... to elaborate, the UK dealer did a poor PDI ( pre delivery inspection ) before delivery. The first day I found things like:

negative terminal bolt very loose
right front calliper bolts finger tight
throttle didn't close when released - poor routing and positioning
front tyre 180 out... thought about this and guessed the bikes come from the factory in a crate with the wheels removed, but tyres on wheels. I removed the front wheel and span it through 180 - the spacer / spindle etc all fit fine and tyre now correct direction of travel
tyre pressures both at 32psi

Also... and this is a biggie... on the way into work a week later, 30 miles on the clock, 20 minutes into a 25 minute journey I banked to the right for a wide right hander and had the most massive slide. Now I've ridden bikes on road, off road, a little enduro / supermoto racing and I've built / ridden many types of bikes, and never known a slide so aggressive and out of control.

The road surface was drying out from recent snow, I'd not seen any ice, doing 20mph on a steady throttle...

I pulled over, thinking the rear tyre had blown, put the side stand down and got off to see oil running from the bottom of the engine and all down the right side of the bike, shaft drive and rear wheel.

Kill the engine, stand back and look up the road... a perfect parabola of oil shining my right hand turn. My first thought was - how much oil was lost? Had I killed the engine by running it without oil?

I pushed her the remainder to work and parked her up with a towel under her, checked the level 5 times: clean oil just kissing the bottom of the dipstick each time, and got on with my shift. Through the course of the day you can imagine the comments about Guzzis from the hondasukikawakihaha know-it-alls. 5 calls to Piaggio customer don't care warranty people, one low loader and she was gone by 4pm.

I retraced my route, looking for evidence of oil, wondering how long and why she was leaking, but could only see a few hundred yards of a rainbow blue finger trail. I called home and my partner checked outside where I warm her up before leaving... nothing there...

The next day I went to the receiving dealership ( not where I brought her from ) after a chirpy but apologetic phone chat:

"Sorry Matt, we won't be able to look at her until the new year, and as you know, if you've run her without oil..."

The guys there were great, the first time we'd met. We gassed about life and guzzis and the state of the motorcycling economy and the recent NEC show ( an annual motorcycle show held in Birmingham UK ) and then the owner said:

"Well your bikes done, pop round and chat with the mechanic"

What? Done? Terminal done? Done for? Done and dusted?

The mechanic had forgone some routine servicing to look at my bike out of sheer curiosity... why had a brand new, 30 mile Griso thrown its guts up?

The culprit was the oil line connecting to the front of the oil cooler. It was finger tight and as the bike had warmed on my journey in it had loosened and sprayed oil everywhere under pressure ( including on the clocks!). He'd topped it up with less than a litre of oil, tested and cleaned it too.

I was utterly gobsmacked. I'd only popped round to say hi to the staff and fully expected a protracted period of warranty haggling etc... but now she's back.

I changed the oil ( and trans and g/box ) after that, and have done a couple of hundred miles since.

I've also not stopped going over her, stripping, cleaning, checking, greasing, lubing, tightening, and rechecking as well as taking on board all the advice here.

I don't blame Guzzi. I think it's a fantastic product, an engine steeped in history and beautifully developed by Aprilia engineers to realise its current state.

Now this monkey needs to get to know her, unkink her, learn her foibles and just get on with the serious business...

Riding.

 

[knucklemoto]

The score marks in the cam covers I mentioned previously


and the other side


They are caused by the tangs of the plates that Pete advises hold the head studs true. ( thanks Pete ).

I was unimpressed with them digging into the head, so trimmed them back and took care to attempt to site the studs as centrally as possible. I say attempt as they don't fit snugly and make little difference to the studs, but at least they won't chew a hole in the cam covers anymore... I may remove them in the future.


All good now. And here's a photo of the new look cam covers...


Thanks Katacrak for the diagrams. I will be working out the breather system soon so your post is appreciated.

I will be taking Petes advice tomorrow - riding harder and faster... gonna get some heat in that engine... more riding, less wrenching...