• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

Liquid cooled engine in the making for 2014?

Mi_ka

High Miler
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
619
Location
Thessaly, Greece
Just read about it here (... in greek): http://www.mybike.gr/topic/40161-υδροψυκτα-μοτο-guzzi
which contains info from the greek MOTO magazine (www.motomag.gr)

A quick brief:
- V2 90 degrees, 1200cc, shaftie
- Designed from scratch
- Euro 4 compliant (implemented in 2014, difficult for air cooled engines to conform)
- DOHC,4 valves, cams driven by mixed chain-gear system
- Tilted 8 degrees towards front end to provide legroom and more weight to the front wheel (were hopping for 15 degrees but the shaft drive had problems)
- To be presented at EICMA in November 2012
- Chief engineer Federico Martini
- To be manufactured at Pontedera and freighted to Mandello del Lario assembly line
- Originally conceived as a 3 valve but performance not good enough

In the article there is also mention of another older designed V2 75 degrees with dislocated rod bearings, dry sump, water cooling, DOHC, 6 gears, tilted to the front, and ... chain final drive under the code VA-10 that was developed in the 90s by Angelo Ferrari for the then proposed MG-1.
It is said that it was cancelled by Aprilia when it acquired MG to save resources to develop its bread & butter upper-class scooter line in the early 2000s.
The photo in the article must be of this engine:
d7115f2e533cc8bcf91823021f4ba6a2_L.jpg


Interesting but when I think of radiator, tubing etc then I find less attractive.
Not to talk about end user servicability...
 
Moto Guzzi like HD, are between a rock and a hard place. The attraction about Guzzi's motor, especially the 2 valve, is its simplicity. BMW lost a lot of its supporters when they dropped the airhead in favour of the oilhead.

Can't see me buying any. But then I'm a Luddite from way back. :whistle:
 
I'll never get rid of my (air-cooled 1064cc 2VPC, breathed-on V11S powered) '00 Jackal, but I'm digging the new 8V engine in my Stelvio. The 8V seems like a fair segway into an all-new engine, and I actually think it might be a wise move to intro a water-cooled engine in a new California (alá bigbore.it). Might be fun... I won't write it off just yet, but certainly a fair MSRP is paramount.
 
kiwi dave said:
Moto Guzzi like HD, are between a rock and a hard place. The attraction about Guzzi's motor, especially the 2 valve, is its simplicity. BMW lost a lot of its supporters when they dropped the airhead in favour of the oilhead.

Can't see me buying any. But then I'm a Luddite from way back. :whistle:

I agree with Dave. The simplicity of the air cooled Guzzi is an attraction.

I wouldn't mind if Guzzi adds a water cooled bike to their line, as long as they keep the normal bikes.
 
Seems like it will come one day, not sure I would want one. I too subscribe to the idea that part of the appeal of a m/c is that it should have an air cooled lump. If you are going to water cool the dam thing why not just go the extra distance and wrap a cage around it!

If it helps Guzzi stay relavent, I'm all for it, just hope they keep the air cool motor going for a long time.
 
Finally, but disappointing it took Euro 4 to entice development. Future in Guzzies is going to be in recycling of older models. IMHO Aprila is the worst that happened to Guzzi in a long time and they know it.
 
I enjoy the simplicity of air cooled motors but water cooling is a good thing. And one day it will be hard to make an air cooled motor meet regulations. If Guzzi does not prepare for that time then they will be screwed when it gets here. Even HD developed a water cooled mill. It is one of their best motors.
I would buy a water cooled Guzzi, in fact I look forward to it. That does not mean my current air cooled tractors need to go away but time does move forward.
 
312griso8v said:
GuzziMoto said:
Even HD developed a water cooled mill. It is one of their best motors.

The V-Rod engine?
Yes.
It is the only water cooled Harley engine. It is also a well designed engine in my opinion.
But I am actually impressed with Harley engine design in general. They get good power out of old engine designs but more importantly they get great fuel economy. Fuel economy is a good indicator of combustion chamber design. A well designed combustion chamber will get more out of less fuel.
 
Originally, yes. But they did not see eye to eye with Porsche and ended the relationship. So in the end the motor supposedly is not part Porsche.
I don't know.
 
GuzziMoto said:
312griso8v said:
GuzziMoto said:
Even HD developed a water cooled mill. It is one of their best motors.

The V-Rod engine?
Yes.
It is the only water cooled Harley engine. It is also a well designed engine in my opinion.
But I am actually impressed with Harley engine design in general. They get good power out of old engine designs but more importantly they get great fuel economy. Fuel economy is a good indicator of combustion chamber design. A well designed combustion chamber will get more out of less fuel.

Interesting. I've never owned a Harley, I've always viewed them as poorly designed air cooled engines that leak oil and shake themselves apart while overheating the rear cylinder. When you talk about good fuel economy and performance, which engine size in which motorcycle are you talking about?

Also, one thing I do know about Harley is that the V-Rod engine was designed by Porsche. It's a great engine, I was looking at getting a V-Rod last year before I bought my Griso. I ended up deciding against the Harley because I didn't care for the riding position, forward controls with low handle bars.. could've gotten the risers.. glad I ended up with the Griso though.

Thanks..
 
As mentioned, the V-Rod engine was originally designed with Porsche but there may have been differing opinions between HD and Porsche because the Porsche design was supposedly scrapped and HD went with their own design. I don't know if that is true but I do know that there were delays in bringing it to market, supposedly due to the redesign of the motor.
As for HD's other engines, they all get very good mileage for their size. My own experience was with two Buells. An X1 with a 1200cc sportster engine that easily got 50+ mpg and a Blast with a 500cc single that could get well over 70 mpg. If you compare the X1 to any of my Guzzi's the Buell made more power from almost the same displacement and still got about 25% better fuel economy. That is good design. But it did occasionally leak oil.....
 
Yet despite the relatively good performance numbers from the VRod motor, Buell, supposedly the sporting arm of HD, never used it, and the vast majority of the traditional HD crowd would never have anything to do with that motor, so the VRod motor never took over from the underpowered air cooled lump in the rest of the line.
 
Hard to say what the real story is. Eric Buell kept insisting that he preferred the simplicity and character of the Sportster motor but then the Rotax motored Buell came out. WTF? The V-Rod motor is not bad, but it was designed first as a racer then castrated into a cruiser. The Rotax motor is purebred badass.
 
Hi,
I've been riding Harley the last 20 years...
I tuned my Harley a bit with cam, ignition, carb and exhaust. Hurray, no electronics on my Harley... :mrgreen: !
My Harley is quite mild on gas millage, 1 liter on 16 km (1 US gallon/38 mls...), short distances. 25% less on long, highway use (110-120 km/h), 25% more (!) when I'm banging with him or driving fast (150 or more at high way).
With accelerating I use most of the time about 75% of its power... I like the sound :whistle:

Porsch designed with Harley its first Evo engine, which came on the road in 1984. The rest of the development I don't know.
I never have been riding a V-rod, I don't need it, I have my Griso 8v now...
It's possitive that Guzzi is busy developing new engines, they are working towards the future.
I sincerely hope that Guzzi (like Harley did) is trying to keep his own character in his bikes, keeping the looks,
the feeling. And don't mind to much what others (Japan) do.

Ad B
 
Back
Top