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Highest HP Breva/Sport/Norge?

JohninVT

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Feb 15, 2009
Messages
60
It's February in VT and we just got another foot of snow. My imagination is getting carried away. What's the realistic HP/torque ceiling for the 1200 Sport with reasonable mods? I'm fully aware that a Guzzi is not the best machine for generating numbers. I am just bored and wondering what is available around the world for a modification path.

I've already installed Todd's O2 Optimizer, the PC-V, a Mistral conical can, K&N filter and pulled the airbox snorkel. Other than a remapped ECU, that appears to be about the extent of available power adding mods.

Has anyone tried a different cam or bored the cylinders and installed bigger pistons?
 
The word comes from quite a few years ago from Manfred Hecht @ RaceCo;

in it's highest state of tune, the 2V Guzzi engine will make between 90~95 rwhp no matter what you do to it...

- which has held true over the years on many documented dyno runs. Since most of the new machines start in the low to mid 70's, a 30%+ increase is significant. If you want more, look to the new 8V mill.
 
GT-Rx said:
The word comes from quite a few years ago from Manfred Hecht @ RaceCo;

in it's highest state of tune, the 2V Guzzi engine will make between 90~95 rwhp no matter what you do to it...

- which has held true over the years on many documented dyno runs. Since most of the new machines start in the low to mid 70's, a 30%+ increase is significant. If you want more, look to the new 8V mill.


You just peed in my Cheerios. Siiiggghhhhhhh....
 
You could turn your focus to the chassis and running gear...

Getting the suspension set up, or ideally improved with a fork rebuild and a new shock, will give tangible, valid and real world improvement.

Tyre choice is important too...

I had the suspension on my Griso SE set up by a guy that raced and wrenched Aprilia mille's and the bike sits and turns much better now. When funds allow I'm revolving / rebuilding the fork and then a new shock built for my weight and ride...

More thoughts for those long, cold, snowy bikeless days...
 
Maybe a rocket-proppeled-CARC would be a nice mod for 2V Guzzis :roll:

Something like the rocket-proppeled-differential that Tirbonique was manufacturing for drag cars in the '60s:
You hit a switch, the rocket was fired up and the gasses were spinning a turbo directly connected to the differential of the car. In fact, all the assembly was incorparated on the rear live shaft differential.
medium_Turbonique-Rocket-Drag-Axle.jpg


So, the CARC assembly being pretty overengineered for stock power... :whistle:
 
With the exception of needing a stiffer shock spring, my suspension is pretty well dialed in. I will be buying a Brembo RCS master cylinder as soon as I sell some unused gear on CL and Fleabay. I am not willing to start hacking off parts or removing items which help make the bike such a good all around machine so drastic weight savings isn't a route I want to explore.

Getting the last 10% always costs three times as much as the previous 10% of performance but it seems everyone is stuck right around 77-80rwhp with available(and easy) mods. That's why I mentioned cams and bigger pistons. If 90-95 is the realistic limit, how does one get from 77-80 to 90-95?

Call me crazy, but the idea of a totally streetable 1200 Sport with 95hp and 80ft/lbs at the rear wheel makes me wanna do the happy dance. I'm just asking the question. We got a foot of snow Friday and another 4 inches last night. I've got a lot of snowblowing time to think about bikes....
 
John, like the way you are thinking. Keep us posted - preferably with pictures...
 
JohninVT said:
That's why I mentioned cams and bigger pistons. If 90-95 is the realistic limit, how does one get from 77-80 to 90-95?
It's largely in head-flow. If you want to spend big money on the heads and some dyno time, it's achievable. I can get you started if you want to take this route. Bigger cams are a possibility, but I am not sure about a bigger bore (Pete?). I am not a big fan of raised compression on a street motor, especially an air-cooled mill (but see below).
If you're ready to write the check, I'll help you get there. How much are you hoping to spend to spend? Figure this will cost ~$1500-2k without the cams, by the time that everything is done properly including revised timing on the ECU.

My friend Andrew decked his heads on his Griso 1100 and is in the low 80's (RWHP) with my full fueling kit, and extensive time spent correcting the timing... though his bike seemed to be problematic for pre-detonation. His write-up can be found in the main Tech section.
 
GT-Rx said:
JohninVT said:
That's why I mentioned cams and bigger pistons. If 90-95 is the realistic limit, how does one get from 77-80 to 90-95?
It's largely in head-flow. If you want to spend big money on the heads and some dyno time, it's achievable. I can get you started if you want to take this route. Bigger cams are a possibility, but I am not sure about a bigger bore (Pete?). I am not a big fan of raised compression on a street motor, especially an air-cooled mill (but see below).
If you're ready to write the check, I'll help you get there. How much are you hoping to spend to spend? Figure this will cost ~$1500-2k without the cams, by the time that everything is done properly including revised timing on the ECU.

My friend Andrew decked his heads on his Griso 1100 and is in the low 80's (RWHP) with my full fueling kit, and extensive time spent correcting the timing... though his bike seemed to be problematic for pre-detonation. His write-up can be found in the main Tech section.


Todd,
I haven't even had a chance to ride my bike after installing your PC-V and O2 Optimizer yet. I don't know how the filter, snorkel-ectomy and Mistral are all going to work together with your PC-V/O2(terrificly I am sure). I understand that you refer to them as fueling improvements rather than outright power gains but judging by the graphs from similarly equiped bikes, there will be big gains from 3200-4000rpm and a decent whack of 3-5hp up top. For the $$$, it will be a great value. Even if my results are less than typical, I will still only have spent around $100 per hp. Anyone who has ever spun a wrench or modified a motorcycle knows that $100 per hp is cheap as hell.

I am familiar with Andrew's project. I'm not a big fan of raising the compression on an air-cooled motor either. Especially on one that might be used for touring two up in the summer at times. There is exactly one gas station within 50 miles that has ethanol free gas.

I don't think I am trying to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse. I am just curious to see the results of more adventurous mods on the CARC bikes. I just haven't seen much on the CARC bikes beyond Millepercento's stuff.
 
Revisiting this thread now that I've had time to get used to my winter mods courtesy of guzzitech. :D I love the increased punch the bike seems to have down low and into the midrange from the O2 Optimizer, Mistral, PC-V and swiss cheesed airbox.

About that headwork....what would it entail?
 
JohninVT said:
Revisiting this thread now that I've had time to get used to my winter mods courtesy of guzzitech. :D I love the increased punch the bike seems to have down low and into the midrange from the O2 Optimizer, Mistral, PC-V and swiss cheesed airbox.

About that headwork....what would it entail?

Try Mike Rich; he did the headwork on my 1000S and he is quite knowledgeable about Guzzi's. BUT, I would suggest doing this work in the winter because he can get quite busy during the racing season.

mikerichmotorsports.com/index.htm
 
Thanks Cat. If you don't mind me asking, what did Mike Rich do to your heads and how were the results? My knowledge of tuning the Guzzi heads is minimal but I'm guessing most of the gains/work centers around setting squish and the valve job more than flowwork and such. Then adjusting timing with the ECU?
 
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