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Noisy Griso

T

Trogladyte

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
47
Location
London
Anyone got any thoughts about this?

My Griso 8v has never been quite right since the cam follower recall. It was noisy on the right hand side to start with, and it took several stays at the dealer to eventually sort it. It had what basically sounded like tappet noise, which got worse as it warmed up. I think the root problem turned out to be end-float on the right hand camshaft, but various things were tried before it was sorted.

Now it's noisy on the left. The symptoms are a regular noise - not a knock - more of a "ker-dink....ker-dink!". It is engine speed related, and has a period of about one second at tickover of around 1200rpm. This also gets worse as the engine warms up. And then, after about 30 or 40 minutes riding it will suddenly get very loud indeed on the left - rapid loud hammering tappety sound - which can last for about 30 seconds or so before fading back to the regular "ker-chink".

The dealer has so far not been able to trace the problem, having stripped the left side twice, and taken the engine out once in order to repalace the cam chain. The wheels the cam chain run on have also been replaced, as have the tensioner and blades.
 
Tell him to look at the 'Outer' support bosses for the rocker spindles very carefully. There may be witness marks where the rocker end has been making contact with the boss due to excessive end float in the rocker. The answer I;ve been told is to warranty the rockers and cambox assembley but I've yet to see this in a running motor, only in a warrantied part at the importer here.

Pete
 
My 8v is my first Guzzi, and I asked a few friends who are Guzzi owners about how loud my bike's engine is, especially on the left side. They all say it's a Guzzi trait, tappets ticking all day. When I wear my half helmet without earplugs, the noise is unbearable, loudest engine I've ever ridden. I know having the rockers out on the sides instead of underneath the rider is the main reason you can hear the noise over other engines, but yow.
 
Pete - many thanks. I'll tell him what you think. And I'll let folk know how we get on.

Just for interest, I wonder how you think exccessive rocker end float might cause this particular sound. With a period of a second, at 1200rpm, I had ruled out vam and rocker related problems, as I assumed they'd make a much faster more regular noise. Doesn't the cam turn at half engine speed? I think that's why the focus has been on the cam chain, which must do a complete loop once every quite a few revolutions of the engine.

Slick - yes, the 8v engine is quite mechanically noisy. But this is not just normal engine noise, and the dealer agrees. I'm no mechanic, but this is far from my first Guzzi. I've had so many I won't bother to list them.
 
Obviously hard to tell without hearing it but mine and a few others I've heard make a sort of cyclic rattle when hot at idle. That is caused by the tappets spinning. Mine hasn't got any better or worse, I just ignore it. Doesn't sound like your problem though.

Yes the 8V motor is noisy, some are worse than others, mine is awful! :lol:

Pete
 
Thanks Pete.

Interesting. I have a feeling that the "cyclic rattle" you describe may be exactly the regular "ker-chink" that I am hearing at idle. I'll see if I can get a decent recording to post, and see if you agree.

However, this leads me to think that the other problem (occasional transient very loud rat-tat-tat-tat-tat!) is actually a completely separate phenomenon. In my mind they were symptoms of the same underlying problem. If my noise is indeed the cyclic rattle, then the many weeks spent chasing cam-chain related problems have probably been in vain. But for the other more worrying noise, I think your advice on rocker end-float sounds like a realistic candidate.

I'll let you know where we get to...
 
Here you go. This is a recording I made on my phone a few days ago. I just caught the bike making the loud noise on the left - unfortunately by the time I got off the bike and got the phone recording it was fading, and I also keep revving the engine which is a touch irritating, and i don't think helps at all, but hey, what do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5dMWezjqgw
 
Yes, the cyclic rattle.

My 2009 Griso 8V made the exact sound on the left cylinder when the engine is hot.

My other non-Guzzi air cooled twins are much noisier so I am not bothered by the noise that my Guzzi made.

Phang
 
Trogladyte said:
Here you go. This is a recording I made on my phone a few days ago. I just caught the bike making the loud noise on the left - unfortunately by the time I got off the bike and got the phone recording it was fading, and I also keep revving the engine which is a touch irritating, and i don't think helps at all, but hey, what do you think?
Click to expand...

Impossible to say from that. Sound quality isn't good enough. It sounds tappety to me. What were the clearances set to?

Are the pushrods in the right way up?

http://www.servicemotoguzzi.com/public/ ... 6-2009.pdf

With the 'Cyclic Rattle' the cause for that is simple. The tappets, (Cam followers) are not in fact 'Flat'. They have a very slight radius on them. This means that as the cam lifts them it also spins them. Not by a full revolution though, only by a fraction of a revolution. If the radius is less than perfect or there is some other sort of wear or imperfection in the follower or the guide it runs in, or maybe the pushrod, the note it makes as it rotates will change. Thing is I've tried rotating the engine a dozen times or more with the nut on the end of the crank and checking the clearance every revolution and it doesn't seem to change so I'm not worried about it.

While the noise is sometimes better and sometimes worrse and this seems to be related a LOT to ambient temperature and engine temperature, (It gets very noticeable when I'm in traffic and the engine is therefore hot.) mine has been making this noise ever since the cam recall was done. Perhaps its something to do with the nature of the HLD coating on the 'New' tappets? I've done heaps of Km on mine though since I did the recall and it hasn't gone 'Udders Skywards' yet.

Pete
 
Well, I :? hope :shock: we have a fix for the long suffering Griso! This has been a bit of a lengthy saga of shft swapping on both sides over the last year, but a ride back from the dealer earlier suggests we may be there at last!

One cam follower, and camshaft, replaced on the left hand side. I guess the follower went and took the cam with it. On the ride home it actaully sounded and felt pretty good... :)
 
Well, all I can say is that I hope that all the rest of the tappets are also part# 877725. If not it'll only be a matter of time before one or all of the others goes tits-up. when the recall was done it was done with the updated tappets wasn't it? Not just another set of the crappy orignal ones made of cheese, (These, thank God.) are no longer listed in the parts break-down so I can't give you a part number.).

I got yet another early 8V in last week. Bought in Sydney from one of the big, new, 'Wunda-dealers.' It was their ex-demo. Guess what? pushed out the door still eligible for the recall. What a PITA?!

Pete
 
pete roper said:
Well, all I can say is that I hope that all the rest of the tappets are also part# 877725. If not it'll only be a matter of time before one or all of the others goes tits-up. when the recall was done it was done with the updated tappets wasn't it? Not just another set of the crappy orignal ones made of cheese, (These, thank God.) are no longer listed in the parts break-down so I can't give you a part number.).

I got yet another early 8V in last week. Bought in Sydney from one of the big, new, 'Wunda-dealers.' It was their ex-demo. Guess what? pushed out the door still eligible for the recall. What a PITA?!

Pete
Click to expand...
I'm pretty confident it's got the right tappets in it. I haven't seen them myself (although I did see the old camshaft which looked like a bit of a disaster to my untrained eye) but I was talking to them yesterday, and seem to recall something about the new ones being a different colour to avoid the possibility of rebuilding with the old type - is that right?
 
My 8v just started a heavy clanking on the right cyl today comes and goes and is defo top end cam/followers been told by dealers its a common thing with them mine has supposed to have had the recall done at 600 miles its got 9000 on it now also the cat in the std exhaust has fallen out into the can so rumbles i have now removed the can and fitted a GPR can its been on one day and the engine pops great or what
 
siataukreg said:
My 8v just started a heavy clanking on the right cyl today comes and goes and is defo top end cam/followers been told by dealers its a common thing with them mine has supposed to have had the recall done at 600 miles its got 9000 on it now also the cat in the std exhaust has fallen out into the can so rumbles i have now removed the can and fitted a GPR can its been on one day and the engine pops great or what
Click to expand...


If he has so little faith in the product he sells why does he bloody bother???? Cam/Tappet failures areNOTcommon and nver have been, even in the VIN# range where the recall was ordered there were many machines that never failed. I have yet to hear of a single machine that has had the tappet replacement done by a COMPETENT mechanic, with the correct parts that has failed. I HAVE, unfortunately, heard of several failures after replacement but I'm pretty sure they were the result of the failed parts being replaced by identical ones ordered because the parts wombat or mechanic either doesn't bother to read information on the servicemotoguzzi site or simply ordered the earlier parts when they were still listed because they were the 'first cab off the rank' in the parts list.

The situation in the UK seems particularly bad with the local importer seeminly dumping long-time *enthusiast* dealers and appointing any old charlatan with a flash show-room and sufficient avarice to not be worried about poor service.

I would suggest finding a dealer who knows what they are talking about and knows the brand. Otherwise you'll just end up being continually disappointed.

Pete
 
pete roper said:
siataukreg said:
My 8v just started a heavy clanking on the right cyl today comes and goes and is defo top end cam/followers been told by dealers its a common thing with them mine has supposed to have had the recall done at 600 miles its got 9000 on it now also the cat in the std exhaust has fallen out into the can so rumbles i have now removed the can and fitted a GPR can its been on one day and the engine pops great or what
Click to expand...


If he has so little faith in the product he sells why does he bloody bother???? Cam/Tappet failures areNOTcommon and nver have been, even in the VIN# range where the recall was ordered there were many machines that never failed. I have yet to hear of a single machine that has had the tappet replacement done by a COMPETENT mechanic, with the correct parts that has failed. I HAVE, unfortunately, heard of several failures after replacement but I'm pretty sure they were the result of the failed parts being replaced by identical ones ordered because the parts wombat or mechanic either doesn't bother to read information on the servicemotoguzzi site or simply ordered the earlier parts when they were still listed because they were the 'first cab off the rank' in the parts list.

The situation in the UK seems particularly bad with the local importer seeminly dumping long-time *enthusiast* dealers and appointing any old charlatan with a flash show-room and sufficient avarice to not be worried about poor service.

I would suggest finding a dealer who knows what they are talking about and knows the brand. Otherwise you'll just end up being continually disappointed.

Pete
Click to expand...
The bike is going in next week to the dealer who serviced it from new they seem to know what they are talking about just have to see what happenes
 
Mine doesn't make that noise. Pete is obviously the expert, but I would get a stethascope and see if you can narrow down the source. It sounds like a con rod to me, but that's just based on the audio file. If it's still under warranty I would demand the motor be yanked for inspection. Maybe something got dropped in the crankcase or timing chain issue during the recall work?
 
As always, it seems a good local dealer/mechanic that actually cares about what they sell make all the difference in the world. This time next week I hope to be the owner of a new, zero mile 2009 white Griso 8v. I'm purchasing it from Rose Farm Classics in Woodstock, IL. I've found the owner of Rose farm, Jim Barron to be the most competent and caring dealer/mechanic I've ever lived near. He's already replaced the tappets and I have 100% confidence the replacement items were the correct ones, installed correctly.

It's terrible to have the glow of a new Guzzi tainted by the aggravation caused by a ham fisted, non caring dealer.

Mark
 
You bought an 8V Mark! I don't think you'll be disappointed. Congratulations. Ride and enjoy and yes, buying from someone like Jim will make all the difference. Many people shop around and buy from the cheapest source. Often this is a mistake. The reason they are able to sell cheap is because they have low overheads. Usually the overhead that is cut first is a mechanic who knows what he's doing because we don't come cheap. Buying cheap can often turn out to be a false ecconomy but people seem to be unwilling to grasp this simple fact......

Pete
 
Pete,

Yes sir, a zero mile leftover white 2009 Griso 8V that Jim has already replaced the tappets on. I'm more than excited at getting a new Guzzi. A big part of that excitement is getting one from Jim Barron at Rose Farm Classics. There are only a few guys like you and Jim around and I know that by doing business within that elite group, I'll get the best there is on my side.

Mark
 
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