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Valves noise
- Thread starter motorider
- Start date
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Use the search function.
youcanrunnaked
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2011
- Messages
- 33
Welcome.
The 8V engine is considerably noisier than prior Moto Guzzi engines. The noise is mostly valvetrain clatter. Ask any dealer; they will tell you it's "normal." Whether you like it or not is a different matter.
The 8V engine is considerably noisier than prior Moto Guzzi engines. The noise is mostly valvetrain clatter. Ask any dealer; they will tell you it's "normal." Whether you like it or not is a different matter.
Guys,
We get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. This site currently has so much information that many issues have already been addressed. If you can't find anything related to your question, that is a different matter. If you have searched and can't find what you need then by all means ask away. Also letting us know you put the effort into searching would be nice too.
End of rant.
We get tired of answering the same questions over and over again. This site currently has so much information that many issues have already been addressed. If you can't find anything related to your question, that is a different matter. If you have searched and can't find what you need then by all means ask away. Also letting us know you put the effort into searching would be nice too.
End of rant.
Spaceclam
Cruisin' Guzzisti
You know, i've been using lucas 20-50 synthetic and adding about a half quart of lucas "race only" (high zinc, low detergent) 20-50 for a while now with no complaints. I just changed my oil using mobil 1 v-twin synthetic with the same amount of "race only" stuff, and i SWEAR TO GOD it's quieter.
My neighbor races top fuel dragsters, and they are sponsored by lucas, so i get that stuff for free.
My neighbor races top fuel dragsters, and they are sponsored by lucas, so i get that stuff for free.
I just came back from meeting motorider, we listened to each other’s bike and here are my findings:-
His Stelvio has this cyclic noise on both of the cylinders, sound exactly like the one in the video clip below.
[youtube]R5dMWezjqgw[/youtube]
On the other hand, my A5 engine Griso has all the whirling and faint valve train clattering but without the cyclic clunking noise in the video.
His tappet noise is within normal range, valves were set to 0.10mm and 0.15mm for IN and EX respectively according to motorider.
Idling speed was a little low at 1000rpm. Upon closer inspection, we found the throttle stop screws are being tampered with.
Phang
His Stelvio has this cyclic noise on both of the cylinders, sound exactly like the one in the video clip below.
[youtube]R5dMWezjqgw[/youtube]
On the other hand, my A5 engine Griso has all the whirling and faint valve train clattering but without the cyclic clunking noise in the video.
His tappet noise is within normal range, valves were set to 0.10mm and 0.15mm for IN and EX respectively according to motorider.
Idling speed was a little low at 1000rpm. Upon closer inspection, we found the throttle stop screws are being tampered with.
Phang
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
I find it very hard toglean anything from these sorts of clips because sound quality is poor and I'm half deaf anyway.
All I can say is that this bike has had the throttle stop screws messed with and the owner was told that any old 20/50 oil would work. It doesn't bode well of any sort of service being carried out correctly does it? Who knows what's wrong with it?
actually before you despair I have a couple of ideas!!! Gimme a couple of hours and I'll explain....
Pete
All I can say is that this bike has had the throttle stop screws messed with and the owner was told that any old 20/50 oil would work. It doesn't bode well of any sort of service being carried out correctly does it? Who knows what's wrong with it?
actually before you despair I have a couple of ideas!!! Gimme a couple of hours and I'll explain....
Pete
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
OK. Thinking about this, here's an idea.
Phang, You've got VDSTS yes? Now given that the bloke who's been working on this bike is a bit clueless there is every chance that he doesn't know how to re-set the TPS. Therefore if you plug in your tooling the TPS value will be way off the mark because he decided to try and alter the idle speed using the 'No Touch' throttle stop screw. That being the case, if he hasn't re-set the TPS you can simply return the value to 4.8 degrees using the screw and you'll be back to square one, as long as he hasn't also buggered about with the linkage rod adjustment.
Probably the best bet would be to ballance the TB's at idle and then return the TPS to its correct value with the stop screw.It may not be perfect but it's certainly not going to make it any worse! All the 8V's I've dealt with have left the facory with the TPS value pretty much correct so this would strike me as fairly safe.
Stick some good oil in it at the same time!!!
Pete
Phang, You've got VDSTS yes? Now given that the bloke who's been working on this bike is a bit clueless there is every chance that he doesn't know how to re-set the TPS. Therefore if you plug in your tooling the TPS value will be way off the mark because he decided to try and alter the idle speed using the 'No Touch' throttle stop screw. That being the case, if he hasn't re-set the TPS you can simply return the value to 4.8 degrees using the screw and you'll be back to square one, as long as he hasn't also buggered about with the linkage rod adjustment.
Probably the best bet would be to ballance the TB's at idle and then return the TPS to its correct value with the stop screw.It may not be perfect but it's certainly not going to make it any worse! All the 8V's I've dealt with have left the facory with the TPS value pretty much correct so this would strike me as fairly safe.
Stick some good oil in it at the same time!!!
Pete
Here a few updates on motorider’s Stelvio.
It has 10W-60 in the sump since yesterday instead of 20W-50. Motorider told me it seems quietened down the engine a bit when he rode it this morning.
Spark plugs changed to Guzzi stock NGK PMR8B, previously running on Nippon Denso with thread reach short by 2~3mm.
My VDSTS is with motorider now, he wanted to check the version of the MAP in his ECU. Apparently his Stelvio is running on the V18 MAP. I know nothing about Stelvio but according to him, the lastest MAP should be V52 MAP.
Throttle linkage rod is not tampered with, the blobs of yellow paint are still intact.
That's a brilliant suggestion, Pete. I hope it is not too late to relate this to motorider. Hopefully he didn’t reset the TPS base on the current throttle rest position :lol:
Phang
It has 10W-60 in the sump since yesterday instead of 20W-50. Motorider told me it seems quietened down the engine a bit when he rode it this morning.
Spark plugs changed to Guzzi stock NGK PMR8B, previously running on Nippon Denso with thread reach short by 2~3mm.
My VDSTS is with motorider now, he wanted to check the version of the MAP in his ECU. Apparently his Stelvio is running on the V18 MAP. I know nothing about Stelvio but according to him, the lastest MAP should be V52 MAP.
Throttle linkage rod is not tampered with, the blobs of yellow paint are still intact.
That's a brilliant suggestion, Pete. I hope it is not too late to relate this to motorider. Hopefully he didn’t reset the TPS base on the current throttle rest position :lol:
Phang
Hi Guys
I'm relieved to have found someone as helpful locally as Phang.
Have followed advice ie valve adjust,idle balance. The sacred screw was 'returned' to its 'original' location after suggestions (anti-clockwise). It seems to correspond to the remaining yellow markings which was offset before.
Idle is now about 800-900+ and when cold , have to open the throttle to keep the engine from dying.
The sacred was turned about 1/3 turn anti-clockwise to return it back to its 'original' location.
After some discussion with Phang, have turned it a full 1 turn clockwise.
Of course, with the VDST borrowed kindly from Phang, the TPS was reset all occassions.
The bike initially had a little trouble starting w/o opening throttle (not sure if the ECU is relearning anything here), but the bike idles upwards of 1100 rpm now (estimate).
On the run, both sacred screw settings run fine - the lower idle setting less popping though on deceleration.
I have the old map, will probably need to update the map V18 currently. Dealer has said they can do the new map, but told me to leave the bike there for a day (another logistic headache wrt transport arrangments for me).
Will keep u guys updated.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
I'm relieved to have found someone as helpful locally as Phang.
Have followed advice ie valve adjust,idle balance. The sacred screw was 'returned' to its 'original' location after suggestions (anti-clockwise). It seems to correspond to the remaining yellow markings which was offset before.
Idle is now about 800-900+ and when cold , have to open the throttle to keep the engine from dying.
The sacred was turned about 1/3 turn anti-clockwise to return it back to its 'original' location.
After some discussion with Phang, have turned it a full 1 turn clockwise.
Of course, with the VDST borrowed kindly from Phang, the TPS was reset all occassions.
The bike initially had a little trouble starting w/o opening throttle (not sure if the ECU is relearning anything here), but the bike idles upwards of 1100 rpm now (estimate).
On the run, both sacred screw settings run fine - the lower idle setting less popping though on deceleration.
I have the old map, will probably need to update the map V18 currently. Dealer has said they can do the new map, but told me to leave the bike there for a day (another logistic headache wrt transport arrangments for me).
Will keep u guys updated.
Thanks again for all the help and advice.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
Given that your dealer has already buggered it up once are you sure you'd want to entrust it to him for re-mapping?
Whip the ECU out and send it to me and I'll do it for you same as I did for Phang.
Pete
Whip the ECU out and send it to me and I'll do it for you same as I did for Phang.
Pete
Hi Pete
Thanks for the offer.
The dealership has a few branches and different mechanics.
Will ask around to see if someone locally can recommend a reliable mech to talk to.
If not, will take up your offer. The bike is my daily commute so can't really afford the downtime if I were to send the ECU to you from Singapore/Asia. Cheers.
Thanks for the offer.
The dealership has a few branches and different mechanics.
Will ask around to see if someone locally can recommend a reliable mech to talk to.
If not, will take up your offer. The bike is my daily commute so can't really afford the downtime if I were to send the ECU to you from Singapore/Asia. Cheers.
youcanrunnaked
Tuned and Synch'ed
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2011
- Messages
- 33
I'm sure Pete or Phang will correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the TPS has to be re-set every time a new map is installed. Since your dealer appears to be less than reliable, you might want to check that they actually do this when they install the latest map.
youcanrunnaked said:
Correct !
When I got my ECU back from Todd with the #68 map in it ( Still don't know why dealers profess to know nothing about it, EPA related me thinks ) the TPS was 8.8 While before it was 4.7. VDTS took care of that before I even attempted to start it, It is now 4.8. Added 1 oz of the ZDDP additive to theoretically bring the PPM up to 1600. Going up to the Pensacola Navel Air Museum and into Alabama to hit a few other spots week after next for 3 days. So I will adjust the valves, Check the TB balance and TPS.
Hi all
Phang is on bike trip.
I thankfully managed to get the ecu fitmware updated locally by Sporting Motors. The guy at the shop was kind enough to let me see him confirm the updated firmware version and tps reset. Very nice and friendly
Bike pulls very well now. The sacred was restored to its prior yellow marked position but it does not seem to work.
10/60w engine oil, specs ngk plati plugs, valves clearance to specs, idle balance done, open throttle 3000 rpm is good at factory settings.
Funny thing is, when back at yellow mark, clockwise from moved sacred scew position it idles at 1200+
Rpm. Anticlockwise 360 degrees at yellow mark gives idle at 900rpm
I'm guessing the sacrew screw was adjusted to keep it about 1100rpm. Tried it at 'tampered' position and the bike idles nicely at 1100 rpm. These were done with engine warmed, fan blowing, everytime things were done, the tps was reset. Am i missing something here? Or should i bugger off and just ride the steed?
Have not tried cold start yet. There were occassions when i had to open throttle to keep idling to prevent the engine dying.
Phang is on bike trip.
I thankfully managed to get the ecu fitmware updated locally by Sporting Motors. The guy at the shop was kind enough to let me see him confirm the updated firmware version and tps reset. Very nice and friendly
Bike pulls very well now. The sacred was restored to its prior yellow marked position but it does not seem to work.
10/60w engine oil, specs ngk plati plugs, valves clearance to specs, idle balance done, open throttle 3000 rpm is good at factory settings.
Funny thing is, when back at yellow mark, clockwise from moved sacred scew position it idles at 1200+
Rpm. Anticlockwise 360 degrees at yellow mark gives idle at 900rpm
I'm guessing the sacrew screw was adjusted to keep it about 1100rpm. Tried it at 'tampered' position and the bike idles nicely at 1100 rpm. These were done with engine warmed, fan blowing, everytime things were done, the tps was reset. Am i missing something here? Or should i bugger off and just ride the steed?
Have not tried cold start yet. There were occassions when i had to open throttle to keep idling to prevent the engine dying.
Penis Rotor
GT Godfather!
As has been pointed out before sodding about with the no-touchee screw will have little effect on the idle which is controlled by the ECU's operation of the stepper motor. Target idle is 1200 RPM. If the idle is changing from there it will be because the AFR is being buggered up by the ECU's interpretation of the TPS voltage effecting the amount of fuel being delivered.
Re-set the screw to as close to its original position as possible. Re-set the TPS. Pray for an idle of 1200RPM and go ride.
Pete
Re-set the screw to as close to its original position as possible. Re-set the TPS. Pray for an idle of 1200RPM and go ride.
Pete
I just a valve adjustment on my Griso, not because they were noisy just to see how things were bedding in, Should not have bothered out of 8 valves just the right jug upper exhaust was about 1 thousandth loose set at about a snug 007. adjusted it to a .006. second time I have done the valves and the first adjustment made. If I wasn't anal I would have left it alone. BTW one valve out of adjustment has absolutely nothing to do with the cam wear issue. First time out where I could really flog it with the #68 map in it. I am positive if I was young and dumb instead of "Older" and Dumb, It will pull a wheely :woohoo: even with my 250 lbs. :mrgreen: