• Ciao Guest - You’ve landed at the ultimate Guzzi site. NEW FORUM REGISTRATIONS REQUIRE EMAIL ACTIVATION - CHECK YOUR SPAM FOLDER - Use the CONTACT above if you need help. New to the forum? For all new members, we require ONE post in the Introductions section at the bottom, in order to post in most of the other sections. ALWAYS TRY A SEARCH BEFORE STARTING A NEW TOPIC - Most questions you may have, have likely been already answered. DON'T BE A DRIVE-BY POSTER: As a common courtesy, check back in and reply within 24 hours, or your post will be deleted. Note there's decades of heavily experienced Guzzi professionals on this site, all whom happily give endless amounts of their VALUABLE time for free; BE COURTEOUS AND RESPECTFUL!
  • There is ZERO tolerance on personal attacks and ANY HYPERLINKS to PRODUCT(S) or other competing website(s), including personal pages, social media or other Forums. This ALSO INCLUDES ECU DIAGnostic software, questions and mapping. We work very hard to offer commercially supported products and to keep info relevant here. First offense is a note, second is a warning, third time will get you banned from the site. We don't have the time to chase repeat (and ignorant) offenders. This is NOT a social media platform; It's an ad-free, privately funded website, in small help with user donations. Be sure to see the GTM STORE link above; ALL product purchases help support the site, or you can upgrade your Forum profile or DONATE via the link above.
  • Be sure to see the GTM STORE link also above for our 700+ product inventory, including OEM parts and many of our 100% Made-in-SoCal-USA GTM products and engine kits. In SoCal? Click the SERVICE tab above for the best in service, tires, tuning and installation of our products or custom work, and don't miss our GT MotoCycles® (not) art on the BUILDS tab above. WE'RE HERE ONLINE ONLY - NO PHONE CALLS MADE OR RECEIVED - DO NOT EMAIL AND ASK QUESTIONS OR ASK TO CALL YOU.
  • Like the new V100, GuzziTech is full throttle into the future! We're now running on an all-new server and we've updated our Forum software. The visual differences are obvious, but hopefully you'll notice the super-fast speed. If you notice any glitches or have any issues, please post on the Site Support section at the bottom. If you haven't yet, please upgrade your account which is covered in the Site Support section or via the DONATE tab above, which gives you full site access including the DOWNLOADS section. We really appreciate every $ and your support to keep this site ad-free. Create an account, sign in, upgrade your account, and enjoy. See you on the road in 2024.

Fuel Map Interpretation

G

gvw

Tuned and Synch'ed
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
71
Location
Orlando, FL
Hi All

Downloaded the stock map from my G8V SE (2230G803 - this is not the older #34 map) and am interested in anyone who can interpret the map. I now this is like interpreting art but does anyone have an opinion as to which is the better map or at least a description of the difference in layman's/understandable terms. If the #68 is better than the #03, I would be impressed.

Looking at programming dates, the #03 (20Sep2010) looks newer than the #68 map (26Jul2010).
 

Attachments

  • 2229GRS8V68_FuelMap.JPG
    2229GRS8V68_FuelMap.JPG
    249.4 KB · Views: 1,042
  • 2230G803_FuelMap.JPG
    2230G803_FuelMap.JPG
    237.6 KB · Views: 1,042
  • Fuel Map Difference #03minus#68.JPG
    Fuel Map Difference #03minus#68.JPG
    186.7 KB · Views: 1,041
Is this downloaded with the Ducatidiag whatnot? Probably best to ask for help from Todd or Paul. This is currently a fairly closed book to me. Without instruction from someone a lot more knowledgeable I wouldn't want to offer any opinion or inteligence.

Pete
 
Just for info for others

That spreadsheet is an add on that can be downloaded off the Ducatidaig forum which was made up by a member of the group. You can also turn it into a graph.

It just takes the numbers from the dump and places them into a spreadsheet. I have done it with my Ducati but for me its pretty meaningless as I just don't have the expertise.

Ducatidiag is pretty useful for doing some fault finding and can be used to reset the service light and TPS. I haven't tried it on a Goose though as mine are all too old to make use of the program.

John
 
I've also downloaded this software and have been looking at different maps from different brands using the Marelli ECU, it's very interesting to see how fuel injection is done, but I can't imagine getting it nailed down without mucho dyno time and measuring AFR.

Now I don't have a dyno or mucho of anything, but am willing to try minor changes. As long as nothing foolish is done, seems to me it's akin to rejetting or lowering your needle clip on a carburator. Once your base map is saved you can easily reload it if you don't like what you tried.

The numbers in the cells represent injector open time, and I've calculated that to enrich the AFR from 1:15 to 1:14 requires 6,5% more fuel. This varies a bit if your calculating a larger spread, but were talking about tenths of percentages

I would say the 03 map is richer especially above 1/3 throttle, that is also what the overlay is telling you. Have you tried the 3D view? This will give a somewhat better perspective.
 
Thanks for the input thus far, here are the 3d views of the two fuel maps.

I guess what I want to know is which is the superior map to have. I have heard recommendations to get the #68 map in the bike but then see this #03 map is possibly newer (and it rides great).

The Ducatidiag software allows me to download the map currently in the bike plus reset the TPS and service light but does not allow uploading of maps. Ducatidiag is free but I gather you can buy a writer version from JP which will modify and upload new maps if you contact him directly - too far over my head, I have enough trouble resetting the TPS ;) .
 

Attachments

  • #68_3d.JPG
    #68_3d.JPG
    70 KB · Views: 949
  • #03_3d.JPG
    #03_3d.JPG
    81.2 KB · Views: 950
baloches said:
I've also downloaded this software and have been looking at different maps from different brands using the Marelli ECU, it's very interesting to see how fuel injection is done, but I can't imagine getting it nailed down without mucho dyno time and measuring AFR.

Now I don't have a dyno or mucho of anything, but am willing to try minor changes. As long as nothing foolish is done, seems to me it's akin to rejetting or lowering your needle clip on a carburator. Once your base map is saved you can easily reload it if you don't like what you tried.

The numbers in the cells represent injector open time, and I've calculated that to enrich the AFR from 1:15 to 1:14 requires 6,5% more fuel. This varies a bit if your calculating a larger spread, but were talking about tenths of percentages

I would say the 03 map is richer especially above 1/3 throttle, that is also what the overlay is telling you. Have you tried the 3D view? This will give a somewhat better perspective.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately its not quite that simple.All injectors have "dead time", time it takes the injector to open and the flow to start.So at low rpm and throttle angles with short inj duration the dead time will be a larger influence than it will be at peak torque and WOT with large injector duration. So you cant just apply a percentage figure to injector time to obtain a particular outcome with regard to air fuel ratio.
The 03 map looks to me like a map to suit a more free flowing exhaust and has less epa influence.

Ciao
 
Thanks Phil, your experience is appreciated. I can only imagine how the theory plays out in the real world. If the AFR is lean in certain portions of the map, any mods would need to be validated, but the percentage should give you a baseline to play with, no?

I was wondering how much of an increase in fuel was required to adjust the AFR by a certain amount. At some point I'll be trying this and I'll be sure to share the results.

The 68 map (and alot of the maps I checked out) have these deep sawtooth valleys instead of the more gradual slopes as in map 03. Could the map be designed this way to take into account airbox resonance?

Cheers
Kai
 
baloches said:
Thanks Phil, your experience is appreciated. I can only imagine how the theory plays out in the real world. If the AFR is lean in certain portions of the map, any mods would need to be validated, but the percentage should give you a baseline to play with, no?

I was wondering how much of an increase in fuel was required to adjust the AFR by a certain amount. At some point I'll be trying this and I'll be sure to share the results.

The 68 map (and alot of the maps I checked out) have these deep sawtooth valleys instead of the more gradual slopes as in map 03. Could the map be designed this way to take into account airbox resonance?

Cheers
Kai
Click to expand...
You know Kai its hard to rationalise std fuel maps sometimes.I owned 2 triumph 955 Daytonas back in the late 90's and the fuel maps were appalling. Even the updates Triumph provided would fix one area and mess up another.At some points in the map the bike would just miss fire constantly 5200 indicated rpm and maybe 5% throttle.Then it would stall at the lights if you whipped the clutch in coming to a stop.Hopeless.About this time I realised I was doing Triumphs R & D for them.
Then a good friend of mine was commissioned to fit a Motec unit to one and in 90 min on an inertia Dyno he picked up from memory 15HP and it carburated beautifully.
So guy in Sydney can figure it all out in 90 min of dyno time where Triumph kept tripping over themselves.
I know Triumph might have EPA and other concerns but once you have the vehicle through these hurdles you could at least provide a "competition" tune to the customer so they had something rideable.
So dont look for rationale in fuel and ignition maps esp std ones.You need to see the engine one the dyno and the figures its producing to give the maps relevance.
Ciao
 
Did it using a freeware program called Ducatidiag, two cables off Ebay for $20 total and a HP Mini 5102 netbook for $69 from Gray's online. Buy the cables and download a copy of Ducatidiag to your laptop. Install the driver for the cable from the net or from the cd that came with the cable. Under the seat near the rear fuse box there is a diagnostic connector and you hook up to that. Off the diagnostic connector cable, there are red and black crocodile clips you hook up to your battery (red first and then black). Then you have to go into Control Panel..Device Manager on Windows and check what port you have hooked up to - mine was COM3.

On Ducatidiag, you select the port you are using (i.e. enter 3 in the box) and then turn your ignition on (but do not start the engine). You hit connect and it takes a few seconds and gives a display of the Map and ECU details etc. You hit a button called copy and it pastes those details to the Windows Clipboard. Then turn the ignition off and disconnect in reverse order.

You register on the Ducatidiag forum and start a post requesting a licence and you include the details you copied to the clipboard. You get sent a link to a .lic file they make which you save into the ducatidiag folder on your laptop.

You then hook back up again, connect and now the features are enabled like resetting the TPS and Service light. To download your map, you go across to the Download Map and it takes a few minutes and saves a .ddg file to the laptop. You then download another free program called ECM and you can display the map, compare two maps etc. In terms of uploading maps or modifying maps, not sure what goes on there.

Anyone in Brisbane that wants to borrow my cables are welcome.
 
Not sure Dan, I'll check on the forum, I'm sure somebody has tried that. I ordered the cables off ebay, shipped both from Canada. Can probably be found cheaper, but I wanted them quickly.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top