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GTM Fueling Info

Here is a report on my experience of several weeks running the Norge 1200 with the PC-V, as installed by Todd, and with suspension improvements, also done by Todd. I've now put in a fair number of miles, in different conditions and on varying roads, on the Norge "as revised." Cumulative revisions, for which Todd is the author, include Hyper-Pro rear shock, Hyper-Pro front spring and cartridge emulator, PC-V and remapped ECU, and replacement of Metzeler Interact with Dunlop RoadSmart.

My mileage now includes both 1-up and 2-up and many types of riding. Today's ride, of ~ 100 miles, was 2-up and included (for those who know) Stunt Road and Piuma, Decker Canyon, Ensenal Cyn, Mulholland above the Rock Store, as well as less demanding stuff and freeways. I could not be happier with the improvements in the bike. The bike now runs (IMO) on the "sport" side of "sport-touring" which is what I wanted. Handling is more precise. It can be ridden more aggressively and yet more securely. The PC-V changes the whole character of the powertrain. No longer do I have to worry about engine "stuttering" at low RPM. Now, in the twisties, I can use all the engine braking there is, let the RPM go below 3,000, and know there is steady pull at turn exit. On today's ride, on steep sections uphill and downhill, it was great to be able to go real low in the power band and know that the fueling would be "on" when needed.

My installation did not include the "Autotune" module. Todd did the mapping based on our discussions. It may be that I do not know what I am missing, but I can't guess how it could make better what is running now. Coming through LA freeway traffic, I have been really impressed with how the better fueling helps in commuting -- specifically, lane-splitting and filtering. Because power is more predictable, and the range is broader, I feel more secure in getting to and through just the right spots in traffic. Also important, the RoadSmart is a great improvement over the Interact in two areas of freeway riding -- handling rain grooves and traction when riding on the lane divider dots. I enjoyed the bike before these changes, but I was wary in some situations, because the suspension was soft and power delivery somewhat unpredictable. These problems are gone. I find the ride more satisfying. I also believe there is overall power improvement, from the PC-V.
 
Let me start by saying that an auto electrician i ain't :lol:
But i did finally work out how to use a voltmeter :geek:
The only real bit of advice i can give is when you are grounding an earth wire to a painted frame, SCRATCH THE PAINT OFF, or use a star washer.
Apart from that problem the PCV/Autotune was very easy to install`. Once your tupperware is of it really should only take an hour to install. By the sounds of it the Griso is a lot easier than the Norge. The only downside was that the earth cable for the PCV would not reach the battery.

I had no problems with the Autotune software once it was hooked up and running.
The first pleasant surprise was the smoothness of low speed acceleration and deceleration. The throttle snatch has gone.
The power delivery up to 4000rpm is nice and smooth with no big surprises, but when 4000rpm is reached there is a definate rush of revs and power as the needle races toward the red line. This is something i am not used to, and i am finding myself hanging on tighter.

6th gear roll-ons from 4500rpm make the hair on the neck stand up. There is more useable power from 3rd gear up, which means fewer gear changes if your not in a real hurry

The popping on deceleration has gone (i didn't mind it) and the engine braking seems stronger, although this feeling could be a hangover from riding the LM4 for the last month.

The exhaust seems quieter, or it could be the induction roar from the 6 holes i drilled in the air box lid drowning it out.

Is it better than sex ?, well that depends on the woman you are with, and the Griso feels like a new younger woman :twisted:

Thanks Todd, it's money well spent.
 
My PCV/ECU package arrived today. Instructions are straight forward and install went without any drama. Raining here, yesterday, today and the next 2 days in forecast. Bike fired right up, although it sounded different at 1st . I let bike warm up watching the software and throttle stayed at 0% so no reset was necessary. Is there anything on included CD that would entertain me? I couldn't find any PCV stuff other than the software install. I did not have a plug for O2 sensor yet so I left it in. Is power removed now with re-flashed chip? I'll have to order plug I imagine. Anyway thanks again Todd for all your hard work and putting up with us guys. After I get a chance to ride I know I'll have more ??? Very fast turn around by the way, good job :D
 
Sorry it took me so long to post on this Todd, but I really wanted to get some unrelated issues sorted out so I could test the setup and post my results. Things just seem to give me trouble on a regular basis, I don't take it personally or blame the equipment, just part of the fun in keeping things working. PC-V, autotune, and stepper motor valve install went relatively easy. As posted previously make sure you have a good ground (star washer per Todd works well).

While trying to test the setup my valve cover gasket failed and dumped oil all over my shoe and the floor. I ordered some "real gaskets" shown in a previous post and I'm quite impressed. Since I had the new gaskets, I figured I'd attempt a valve adjustment as well, very easy. I then thought I'd adjust the right side exhaust on the Griso as I didn't leave as much clearance from the bike as I would like, but I proceeded to break the clamp.

After fixing all that and really riding around for a while I can't believe what a difference the PC-V and autotune makes! I know you say it doesn't actually create much more power, but the seat of the pants feeling with the smoothness throughout the range is incredible. I still haven't been able to get away for a long ride (can't wait) so I don't know the actual effect on mileage yet, but I'll keep you posted. If the airbox mod and filter make a difference like you say, I can't wait!! I'll have a permanent smile on my face (just about there already).

Chris
 
Wow. Thanks Todd. PCV/ECU update has made this a new experience. Not really more power but somehow made it much more usable and controllable. Sure seems like more power. No “hole” around 4k. No slag on high speed punch. No compromise/delay on exits. Wonderful magic. Thanks again. Finally no rain here, about 3.5 hours of MG bliss. Yea I found some fun roads even here in Illinois. Did I say thanks. I loved this Guzzi before, now I love it even more. Come on summer.
 
G'day all

I finally got Big Red out today for a bit of a run - scattered showers but less that the deluge that (thankfully) fell across South Australia on Friday/Saturday. You never complain about rain in this part of the world.

First, my set-up - 2007 Norge GT with a Staintune muffler and stock air filter. Now, my experience: I first installed the PC-V and modified ECU. This all but eliminated the popping on deceleration and reduced the surging at around 50 kph when the bike was warm. Pretty good (or so I thought).

The relatively strong Aussie dollar and my growing confidence with working on the bike prompted me to lash out and purchase the Autotune. I am now riding a different bike! This is fantastic! Smooth and willling. Pulls away from less than 3000 rpm without a stutter and suddenly those irritating red lights are flashing at you to remind you it's time to change gear.

I clocked up about 200 km today through the Adelaide hills and on a section of freeway. Sometimes I was riding pretty hard but still got an average 6.2L/100km.

All I can say is "Thanks Todd". Like others here, I thought the Norge was a great motorcycle before but now it's fan-bloody-tastic! :D An expensive project, but money well-spent.

Cheers
 
Cheers guys,

due to bad weather, couple of issues and not having my laptop here with me at the moment (I have to carry around my pc), it took me a while to get everything sorted and I'm not sure I'm done yet, but I installed my PCV/AT/ECU and as only other alteration I took off that snorkel of the airbox lid.
AT red light on, PCV green light on and fire it up. First thing I noticed was a different sound. Prob. due to the snorkel remove.
Had a nice drive and have to say, "Thanks Todd". Bloody awesome, this is.
I can not really comment on anything else yet, only made 150km or so. Fuel consumption appears to have risen slightly. But idling is soft n steady, my torque hole around 4300rpm is just gone :D , well, I'm just repeating what has been said more than once in this thread.
Life will be easier when my laptop comes home and then I will go into more detail with my AT/PCV experiences.
And add more km to the clock. :lol:

Thanks again Todd.
 
Here it is in a nut shell, how do I avoid what will be perceived, by some as sucking up or ass kissing the Guzzitech Guru, AKA Todd ? :woohoo: I have decided that I don't care. All I know is after a lot of procrastinating on deciding whether to go with purchasing the PCV, Autotune, ECU flash,CNC air-box lid and stepper motor cutoff kit and then putting off actually doing the job when everything was at hand, I could not be any happier with the results. I loved my Norge before with a couple of caveats and they are not there anymore to wit the erratic high idle for seemingly no reason at times, the ever present idle hunting when coming to a stop after a long run or short for that matter, The snatchy first gear low speed operation and the popping on decel which really did not bother me until it was gone. Now for the BEST part, As far as I am concerned I have one of the best running 1200 2V Norge's in the country unless it is put up against another one with Todd's mods and it is as smooth as a baby's butt . The Bike is simply transformed across the whole spectrum, Starting from a cold start in less then half the time, Roll ons in any gear and speed greatly improved. The sound from the Staintune while good before is now awesome. There is no annoying intake sound from the open air box lid at a steady rpm but twist that throttle open and it will let you know it is there, another plus is a definite noticeable reduction in heat coming back on the legs. I am just on my 4th modified map and the trim values after each run are getting smaller and the gas mileage is getting better then from the first base map. I realize it is not a cheap option but then again it not a cheap band-aid solution either. Every thing that was shipped to me was strictly first class in materials and workmanship.

Ok I am done.
 
Dan, thanks so much for taking the time to post this... these type of posts are quite rare. Your timing is great, as I've had to "defend" my "character & integrity" on another Forum, and it was even stated that I have quite the "ego" and am a "salesman."

Happy & proud to be here for those who appreciate it.

Dan, thanks to you for continuing to not only be a supporter of GuzziTech, but standing up when the time arises. Hope you have a fantastic X-mas and look forward to the New Year!
 
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A word about Todd's Power Commander setup:

For what it's worth, I recently had Todd install his full setup on my Breva 1200 Sport: PC-V/Auto Tune/ECU re-flash, airbox lid and BMC air filter. I also added one of his new carbon fiber mufflers. Each of these additions made a profound difference in my bike. Now that it's breathing and fueling correctly, the bike is running MUCH stronger, smoother, and cooler. The throttle response is incredible, the surging and backfiring are gone. This is now an entirely different motorcycle, one that is exponentially better than stock! It's much more fun to ride, much more gratifying, and, as a bonus, it now sounds like a real Moto Guzzi (baffle removed). And, either as a result of the smoother running engine, the lower engine temperatures, or some other unknown side benefit, the transmission even shifts much smoother.

Todd set the Auto Tune to correct to an air/fuel ratio of 13.2:1. My fuel mileage has dropped, but one could hardly consider that a down side, as the bike is now getting the fuel mileage it would have been getting from the factory, had the factory set up the bike to run properly and to its full potential (plus I now tend to be a little more heavy handed when riding the bike, since I can't resist the new-found power!).

My only regret is that I couldn't do these mods before I had over 2,000 miles on the bike! Considering the extremely lean running condition of the bike as delivered from the factory, I hate that I subjected my motor to that harsh and potentially damaging state of tune for those original miles. Yes, the fuel mileage was amazing, but the ride-ability of the bike was compromised, and I'm certainly not interested in saving a couple bucks worth of fuel while melting my engine.

All in all, the bike, as it now sits, is an entirely different animal. It spins up faster, makes incredible power and wonderful noises, runs much smoother and cooler, and is much more fun and rewarding to ride. I can't recommend this setup more highly.

Thanks, Todd, for committing the time and resources toward developing this setup!

Ray
 
RayInLA said:
A word about Todd's Power Commander setup:

For what it's worth, I recently had Todd install his full setup on my Breva 1200 Sport: PC-V/Auto Tune/ECU re-flash, airbox lid and BMC airfilter. I also added one of his new carbon fiber mufflers. Each of these additions made a profound difference in my bike. Now that it's breathing and fueling correctly, the bike is running MUCH stronger, smoother, and cooler. The throttle response is incredible, the surging and backfiring are gone. This is now an entirely different motorcycle, one that is exponentially better than stock! It's much more fun to ride, much more gratifying, and, as a bonus, it now sounds like a real Moto Guzzi (baffle removed). And, either as a result of the smoother running engine, the lower engine temperatures, or some other unknown side benefit, the transmission even shifts much smoother.

Todd set the Auto Tune to correct to an air/fuel ratio of 13.2:1. My fuel mileage has dropped, but one could hardly consider that a down side, as the bike is now getting the fuel mileage it would have been getting from the factory, had the factory set up the bike to run properly and to its full potential (plus I now tend to be a little more heavy handed when riding the bike, since I can't resist the new-found power!).

My only regret is that I couldn't do these mods before I had over 2,000 miles on the bike! Considering the extremely lean running condition of the bike as delivered from the factory, I hate that I subjected my motor to that harsh and potentially damaging state of tune for those original miles. Yes, the fuel mileage was amazing, but the ride-ability of the bike was compromised, and I'm certainly not interested in saving a couple bucks worth of fuel while melting my engine.

All in all, the bike, as it now sits, is an entirely different animal. It spins up faster, makes incredible power and wonderful noises, runs much smoother and cooler, and is much more fun and rewarding to ride. I can't recommend this setup more highly.

Thanks, Todd, for committing the time and resources toward developing this setup!

Ray
Click to expand...
I can Echo Ray comments word for word the only differance is that I did the work myself, If that is your hang up about ordering the setup well it should not be there is nothing magic about the installation. Yes, some of the tasks like removing the fuel tank, airbox and ECU can appear to be duanting but very doable as long as you take your time and plan in advance. Once done, you will be amazed you are riding the same Bike. I already was running with a K&N filter and staintune exhaust, right from the getgo at the first start up before any trim values where accepted the Bike sounded so much better. On a Norge, the open air box lid noise is barely noticible until you grab a hand full of throttle :mrgreen:
 
Working away from home for the last 9 months so no time to sit and work on the maps for my G11
so all that has been done is connect the PCV ,Auto Tune ,replace o2 sensor, I fly in pick up the bike out of storage every 28-30 days and spend a week riding everywhere I can then drop it back in storage and fly out.
I've put 5000 klms on it since the PCV went on and it runs fine,no overrun popping, smoother idling,better acceleration.
When I finally get back to civilisation for a while I will fine tune the whole deal but stock out of the box it is doing everything it is supposed to do.
Probably put it on a dyno just to set some WOT in all gears as a base and work from there.
Thanks to Todd for sorting out a problem that was pissing me off and turned the G11 into the bike I thought it could be.

All up , money well spent.
later swagzz
 
I just had Todd do the full PC-V/AT/airbox/exhaust on my Stelvio, and the results are dramatic, to say the least!

I had been riding my Stelvio in stock trim with Todd's ECU re-flash only, and that set-up was giant leap forward in terms of ride-ability. The bike was much smoother and cooler, and the surging and abruptness at part-throttle and on/off throttle were nearly eradicated.

Now, with the complete PC-V setup, the bike has undergone a MAJOR transformation! It's a beast, albeit a controllable beast. There is a large power increase through all RPMs, but the bike also feels much smoother and more "content". Throttle response is excellent and immediate. The fueling is so refined, I could putt around all day at 2,000 RPM without any surging, hunting, abruptness, etc., but wick it up to higher RPMs and the bike simply rips! At 5K RPM, the bike turns into a rocket! Large throttle openings in the first couple gears can result in the front end hoisting itself over my head!

The bike runs much cooler and smoother, I've probably lost 20 lbs of exhaust weight, it even shifts smoother! For those nay-sayers who discount the ability to make these modern Guzzis run appreciably better via this method, I'm here to tell you that it works...and it works in dramatic fashion!

I've done this set-up on my previous 1200 Sport, and I'm loving it even more on the Stelvio. Money well spent for the enjoyment I now feel every time I ride! I can't imagine riding a modern Guzzi without this set-up.

Ray
 
Caveats- I must confess I love listening to the intake honk of the open airbox and the GuzziTech Right side Exit Exhaust with dBInsert and I'm having way too much fun since my Griso has been unleashed with Todd's Full Meal Deal of ECU reprogram so the PC V can control the fueling below 40% throttle open (which is where all the herky/jerky happens at slow speed 5-15% throttle opening in traffic and parking lots), and Autotune, the CNC airbox Ring and BMC Airfilter, and the right side exit GTRx Exhaust with the dB insert in. The Griso now revs so quickly and pulls so hard it's almost impossible not stretch it's wings.. If your Griso is stock you have no idea what you are missing with your slow reving, congested top end, and worse jerky slow speed partial throttle response. Plus now I can accelerate cleanly from 3k to redline. Anything above 6500 rpm is just crazy strong and you better be ready to shift quickly after doing these mods. Now I can ride around town at 3k (even as low as 2.5k it will pull my 185lbs without jerking) to 5k with plenty of power (the torque is much better now that I'm not running at 16.8-17.2 air to fuel ratio that the autotune demonstrated stock versus the 13.2 ratio it's running at now).

If you can afford (especially with the discounts available) a new Griso, then you can't afford not to let it breath and fuel like it's supposed to. Plus with the heat here in AZ and the ultra lean stock condition below 6k (the autotune added between 22%-50% more fuel in this range) you can't expect the motor to hold up running lean. Before in bone stock form, I would have to keep the bike over 4,400rpm or the throttle response was jerky in traffic and I got the same gas mileage with my stock 068 and with my more aggressive riding with Todd's Full kit. Plus dropping the 20lbs off the bike makes transitioning the bike much quicker.
 
I did the full kit (ECU, CNC air box, PCV and AT). My bike is a 2008 1200 Sport with 6100 miles on her. I now have about 6600 miles with the mods. All I can say is, what a difference!!! I also have your Stepper Motor bypass. Now when I start the bike the stepper motor is only used for initial warm up. Once warm I switch it off and no more iratic idle.

I am also running a StainTune slip on muffler without the insert and the bike sounds great with the open air box. I removed all the emision hoses, evap canister and the fuel tank now vents to the atmosphere with a K&N breather to filter out any dust. The crankcase and transmission are also vented with K&N breathers.

My initial goals for all these mods was to eliminate the partial throttle surging, wandering idle, herky/jerky throttle response while riding in town. What I have achieved has far surpassed my expectations. The bike is super smooth, pulls all the way to 8K and sounds like it should. I have not measured the results on a dyno yet because I am still busy accepting the trim adjustments to further fine tune the map. I plan on taking the bike up to Boulder Motorsports to do the dyno run. I imagine the HP torque have improved but tyhe smoothness was what I was after. Once I get a dyno sheet I'll post the stock sheet and the one with the upgrades.

Thanks for the help.
 
It is now a week that I have had my reflashed ECU PCV A/T in my bike and what a marvellous thing! Easy installation , and finally the WOG BIKE is goin like I hoped he would. I AM IMPRESSED IN BIG FLASHING CAPITAL LETTERS!
Now the fueling is sorted for now and into the future. Brilliant.
 
I just spent the day getting my CalVin fueling done with Todd, and I must say I'm very happy with the result. Prior to today the bike seemed really strangled; i.e coughing and burping on acceleration, taking lots of time to warm up, and sounding like a bowl of cereal going snap crackle and pop on decel. After flashing the ECU, installing a PC-V, and H-pipe and an auto tune module, and then mapping and setting it all up properly, it now runs like it's supposed to and it even sounds better. The icing on the cake was spending an enjoyable day with Todd sharing stories and experiences while I got to see him work on my bike. Highly recommended.
 
Hi,
Recieved a re-flashed ECU on March 7th and had it installed on my bike the following day. The dealer fitted it, reset the TPS and I went for a ride, not too flash! We then re balanced the throttle bodies and reset the TPS. this totally transformed the bike and it became a thing of great joy riding through built up areas with 30mph speed limits. before it hunted and generally was not nice unless pulling a high gear and on the point of labouring.
Thankyou Todd for your efforts it has made a very good bike much better and I cannot wait for the PC-V and Auto Tune to add the final touches.
The ride home consisted of some tight twisty hill sections, open road cruising and negotiating small towns. The bike has been transformed into a sweet running machine.
Thanks again,
Mike
 
UPDATE:

It was worth every cent to get the whole package. My wife as a passenger even noticed the change in the bike... it is like having a new bike again! Thanks Todd! Bike runs better, cooler and the response is better also even without changing the slip-on yet... I will do the slip-on asap. Too much fun.
 
Todd installed the magic hardware on my bike. I rode the bike for 14,000 miles stock before making the jump. I read all the posts on this setup and I knew what to expect. Let’s just say, I was not disappointed. It’s one thing to know what you are getting and another to actually experience it.

The bike is now ready to ride within 30 seconds from the time I press the start button. That by itself is a major improvement. I’ve always had to wait forever it seems for the engine to warm up and function without hesitation or trying to stall. Idle speed is another improvement. It’s always perfect at any temperature and well balanced. Great idle sound these Guzzies.

Low speed riding is so much more enjoyable now. (It didn't bother much before, but the clutch was my friend.) Smooth is the word that comes to mind. Throttle response is quick and the engine revs faster. Low to mid power delivery is perfect and that darn flat spot is history. That engine really shines! Todd did not have an air box ring available when I was there, so I know I am still missing on high end raw power. Oh well, that gives me something to look forward to.

I cannot thank Todd enough for all the dyno hours and research work he's placed in this project. We are truly blessed to have him…Sometimes, I wonder what our Guzzi world would be like if he wasn’t around. :blink:
 
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